Benjamin Robson

Euan (00:07)
Hello and welcome. This episode of I taught English Abroad I've got Benjamin Robson here speaking to me who you might also know as English Life with Benjamin if I've got that correct. Now Benjamin you're someone who absolutely fascinates us and we're going to talk about a range of different subjects but the one thing I have to ask first of all is how are you?

Benjamin (00:08)
to play.

I am doing very well. Thank you. Thank you for having me on this podcast It's a pleasure to talk with you and to discuss a little bit about the journey and the story

Euan (00:38)
Excellent, excellent. I mean, you've passed the first question, so we can carry on there. So, exactly, that's it. So before we delve deeper into the sort of the final points of your career, and there's a lot to talk about there, it's going to be a really good lesson, I'm sure, but I'm fascinated to know, was it always the plan to work abroad and to be an English teacher? What was your kind of, what did you want to be when you grew up?

Benjamin (00:43)
We're making progress.

Absolutely not. It definitely wasn't the plan at all and life just kind of brought it into my path. My passion was first and foremost sports and I think like most teenage guys you want to be a football player or some sort of sports athlete. So that was my plan. It didn't go as I expected it to and I reached a point in the teenage years where I thought maybe I'm going to need a backup. And that kind of went hand in hand with wanting to.

experience a new culture, learn a new language and also move away from London. At that point, it wasn't permanent but it was in my mind to at least do it temporarily. So they kind of came together and the idea of teaching and working with people, communicating with people and also having the opportunity to work in English rather than Spanish or German was a really appealing idea at that time. So

was what brought me into it and I must say I couldn't have imagined at that moment the journey that has taken place.

Euan (02:10)
Well, I mean, we're just going to talk about that journey. But before we get there, I kind of wanted to know, you know, all the people that we speak to who foster ambitions to travel abroad and have a similar kind of life to you've had often kind of come from family backgrounds where there is there is there's a kind of there's a difference in cultures. There's, you know, different kind of nationalities in the background there. I just wanted to know, what was your childhood like? And did you always kind of foster those ambitions to see the world? And, you know, at what point did teaching kind of meet that?

Benjamin (02:41)
Definitely not. It wasn't that wasn't fostered from an early age. I mean, my upbringing was very normal, and I would say very good and very positive, a good education and the opportunity to do whatever I wanted in London. On from my father's perspective, he was probably the more of the traveler and he'd lived in a couple of different places and he always wanted to live in another country. So if I had to pinpoint where the spark.

from, it would probably be my dad, but even if you asked him, I don't think he would have imagined that would have taken me so far away and permanently away, so to speak.

Euan (03:23)
It makes a lot of sense. People can say things like, oh, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree when it comes to traveling around the world and career ambitions, that kind of thing. But I think that's a very distinct thing. Now, it's interesting to see some of your experiences. And we'll get into more of your experiences. But they've influenced the lessons that you give and the types of lessons you give. And I think that's a universal thing. We've spoken to teachers who have all sorts of backgrounds. And they have areas of expertise that relate to their own life. So with that in mind.

Benjamin (03:29)
Hehehehehehe

Yes.

Euan (03:53)
You have class options on your website focused on football coaching and sports coaching in general. You touched a little bit about that in the first question, but I want to kind of dive into that a bit deeper. Why is that a particularly important area for you beyond kind of the sort of normal ambitions of wanting to be a Premier League footballer?

Benjamin (04:11)
Definitely. For me, I felt like it was something that could have been a niche, so to speak. I tried to always follow my passion and then also think about what services I can offer to the world, to the public, to whoever. And sports and football coaching was naturally easy for me. It was something I enjoyed and it was something that I felt that I was good at without a…

too much extra studying or effort. So I tried to combine the two together. I can't say that the football coaching, the teaching is a big part of my business nowadays, but in the beginning I was just trying to find my way through and to find some avenues that would give me new opportunities. I mean, and in my daily life, I enjoy keeping fit. I enjoy, you know, eating healthy food. So I thought, well, if I can impart things that I have knowledge of and things that I'm…

good at and put that into the English teaching, maybe we have a winning formula.

Euan (05:12)
I love that and you're also protected pack. We'll try that again Okay Cool. It's see what I tell people advanced like oh we can do bits again in cases You know for the edit and all that kind of stuff and I think guests always assume I'm gonna be a consummate professional, but no So I was gonna be second there, okay, you've been here before you and you can do this right and

Benjamin (05:18)
In short.

I feel you man, I feel you. Of course.

Euan (05:42)
Great, so you're also a practitioner of business English lessons. And obviously you're someone that started your own business. So, you know, like the football coach and that kind of thing, it kind of relates to your personal experience, but it's also an area of expertise. And it's something that, you know, a lot of learners want to learn. So just starting your own business as a tutor, did that help to inform that particular course option? Or did you already have kind of expertise in business that you could bring to the teaching table, if you like?

Benjamin (06:08)
I was kind of thrown in at the deep end, let's say a few years ago, moving to Valencia, Spain and trying to find my feet. It was very much get as much experience as possible, find opportunities, gain experience and then move on from there. So working with certain academies and institutions, it was very much, Benjamin, you know, you're English, you have your, you know, qualifications, you speak quite well.

Euan (06:12)
Okay.

Benjamin (06:35)
we will give you these different challenges, being Cambridge preparation, IELTS preparation, but also business English. So I was thrown in at the deep end in Valencia. I would go to the business park, which was a little bit outside of the city with my British car, and I would go to the different businesses trying to help them. That was the beginning. Nowadays, it seems more just of a natural request from students.

They are busy professionals. They want to improve their careers. They want to have more possibilities in the future. And hopefully I'm able to support them in some way. But I wouldn't say the trigger was me starting my own business. However, definitely it lends a helping hand with regards to the classes.

Euan (07:27)
Absolutely. We've talked about business English in the podcast before, but I still think it can feel like a bit of a vague term to the people who don't really know much about it. I do include myself in that because I understand what it might be like, but equally, beyond teaching the English for suitcase versus briefcase or the English word for negotiation, what can I think is covered in business English? Because it sounds like there's a lot more to it than it sounds like.

Benjamin (07:45)
Hahaha

Euan (07:55)
sounds like on the first kind of impression. Is that first thing?

Benjamin (07:59)
I would definitely agree with you. I think I have two completely different experiences. The first one was in Spain where it was, this company has hired us, we need you to do negotiations, we need you to do phone calls, we need you to do meetings. And you're basically just trying to teach vocabulary for those meetings and do role plays. That was my memory of that, which worked. However, nowadays I feel it's more of a analytical approach.

meaning observing what the student lacks, what the student's weaknesses are, and then just trying to give them that. Maybe it's just that the words that they use are not professional enough, or maybe they make a lot of grammar mistakes and that makes them sound less business-like. So I think my approach to business English now is more of an analytical approach, whereas before it was just these are the requirements, try to…

deliver them in the best way possible, regardless of the weaknesses of the students. Maybe the students knew all of the expressions, but that wasn't what they really needed at that time.

Euan (09:08)
And so I'm kind of fascinated to know about, you know, what happens after those business English classes, if you don't mind me asking. In terms of the feedback do you get, do people email you and say like, oh, we got, we managed to get this client or we managed to get this partnership going or like, is it that kind of thing? Am I imagining the sort of the right ideas or?

Benjamin (09:27)
It's quite surreal for me to share that because there are some moments, I won't exaggerate and say that there are tons of moments, but a student said at one time that one expression that we learnt, he used that in a negotiation and he ended up getting a better deal. I found it hard to believe, I don't know whether he was just telling me that to make me happy, but I'm going to like to believe that it was true and that there are some positive, you know.

There's positive progression from the classes that we hold.

Euan (10:00)
You know, you get some very modest people in this podcast. I'm going to include you in that too. I'm sure it was very, it was very meaningful and very important for that particular client. So you touched on a little there. You went to Valencia in Spain. And if I'm right, you're based in Hamburg now. And also the light is bouncing off my face. I'm sorry, that's really distracting. But you're based in Hamburg just now. So where has kind of English taken you? Is it taken you to those two places or have you traveled around and sort of found that

these are the cities I like the best or what's the sort of travel experience been like for you?

Benjamin (10:34)
I don't think English has taken me specifically to Germany or to… It did take me to Valencia, but it was a secondary reason. The reason I went to Valencia was I felt like it was a good starting point in terms of not as expensive as Madrid or Barcelona, but also by the beach, you know, sunny most days. It was like a good starting point that allowed me to develop the teaching English as a foreign language. Germany, however…

is due to my wife being from Germany. So that is the secondary inspiration or reasoning. If I go back to your question as to where English and teaching has taken me, to be honest, everywhere, I think if you're able to create the right setup for yourself with the right studies, it can take you wherever you want to go and you're not limited. Especially nowadays when you don't need to be based in one city to give classes. You can be

Euan (11:07)
Alright.

Benjamin (11:33)
anywhere in the world and it's taken me to Finland, it's taken me to you know other places from the qualifications and then from the social media and the experiences.

Euan (11:46)
Great. And we're going to get a little bit more specific about some of the places you've been in terms of English teaching.

So we talked a little bit about Valencia there. And now, of course, you live in Hamburg, you're married and you're living in Germany. I want to ask first, because Spain is a really, really popular capital destination, it's a place that a lot of our students are kind of interested in going after they've achieved their qualification. So how did you find Valencia in terms of teaching? Because you touched on some of the opportunities you had there. There's some good solid evidence to suggest that coastal areas of Spain

have significantly better English proficiency and better, like a higher demand for English. Did you find that to be the case when you were actually there?

Benjamin (12:25)
Yes and no. I would definitely agree that there was a high demand, 100%, and I would say that depending on the age range, the English is better or worse. The youngsters from, you know, four, five, six years old till early twenties or thirties, really, really good. I think that's probably down to the YouTube, contact, the music, the video games. The older generation, it really depended on their background, what work they did and how much

traveling they did and how much contact they had with English. I think it was an excellent place to begin. It was relatively cheap, which I think is important when you're starting out and trying to get a foothold in this business. And there were many opportunities. However, on the flip side, there's also a lot of competition. So you're fighting that battle with many other expats from English speaking countries. There were.

you know, so many Irish citizens, so many South African, Australian. So it was an incredible place to start. And it's just, I think, important to be aware that there is competition and there is, you know, maybe planning needed before just jumping in at the deep end.

Euan (13:40)
Absolutely. And we talk about the kind of students that you were teaching and the kind of audiences that are there in terms of demand. So where specifically were you kind of teaching in Valencia? Were you working in schools? Because you mentioned you were working with businesses as well. Was this kind of freelance or were you working with a company or how did that kind of all work?

Benjamin (13:58)
It was all companies. So the first situation was I was hired by a company within the first week or so of landing in Valencia. Very lucky, I hounded companies with my CV and basically said, I'm English, I've got my qualification, take me now, but I have no experience. And one of them took a chance. I had to do a test and an interview, of course. And I will say that was a full-time position for full-time salary.

And I was there a couple of months. I then got an opportunity to move to the academy which provided the business English opportunities as well as exam preparation stuff in the classroom. And I was there for the majority of my stay in Valencia and I really enjoyed that. I think I learned the most there. It was very positive and supportive environment and I was able to progress and not feel too stressed about the teaching experience.

And I didn't feel, I mean, there was a lot of advertisement for different opportunities, Facebook groups, websites online, and just, you know, word of mouth in the community. So that was quite easy. And then the final opportunity was actually maybe a little bit of a step up, thankfully. It was a kind of head of studies role in a different academy in Valencia. And that was more teaching other teachers.

kind of making sure students were happy with the experience. And that was, I think, very helpful when it comes to the business that I'm doing now. So different experiences in that time.

Euan (15:38)
What jumps out at me there from what you're saying is that while it is competitive, being qualified, being eager and being able to communicate means that there will be opportunities. So I think anyone listening who wants to do Teflon in Spain should really, really heed what Benjamin's saying here. I know the podcast is called I taught English Abroad and it's all about English teaching.

Benjamin (15:54)
Hahaha

Yes.

Euan (16:00)
But as someone who had to move and became a permanent resident in two different countries, obviously you've had to learn Spanish and German. And obviously, you're vice German as well. So I can imagine that would be a little bit rude if you didn't know some German. I'm not going to pry. But how much impact did learning Spanish and German have on what you do as an English teacher? I mean, if not necessarily just from an academic perspective, did it give you any sort of kind of, I don't know, almost kind of emotional kind of…

Benjamin (16:09)
Yes.

Definitely.

Euan (16:30)
you know, abilities in terms of, you know, able to be empathetic with learners and that kind of thing. You know, what did you what did you find beyond the language from learning those two languages?

Benjamin (16:41)
I think you hit the nail on the head and you know us, you know, people from whether it's England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the United States, we don't stereotypically have the best reputation for immersing ourselves in other cultures and learning other languages. Well, that's what people have told me anyway. And I think you're spot on. The ability to learn another language or a couple of languages and have that empathy for the student is completely different.

Euan (16:59)
Hmm.

Benjamin (17:11)
you in some cases understand more the mistakes they're making because you can compare the two languages. You are more patient, you are more supportive, you are able to do your job in a much better way because you have gone through the process that they are currently going through and you realise that sometimes things just don't make sense, I speak better one day than I do another day, I can't get my head around the grammar.

I would highly recommend that if you can, picking up another language, and especially if you're teaching students from that country and you know their language, it will make your job a million times easier.

Euan (17:52)
It's one of those things that I guess like a seasoned title teacher might assume to be the case, but you know, it's not always knowledge that's necessarily kind of learned immediately. And I think I think people are going to take a lot from that. Now, you've touched on exam preparation a little bit and you teach IELTS preparation now amongst other exam preparation classes, certainly according to your website. And I'm not going to argue with your website. So when you've been when you've been based in other countries, did you find out much about?

why people were taking these English proficiency exams. And I was just wondering if you had any sort of particularly inspiring stories from doing that with students, because I'm going to guess that there are.

Benjamin (18:32)
Definitely. I think three reasons jump out at me. One is for their own confidence or for their own, you know, satisfaction and pride. Secondly, to study abroad in a or to study in English. And thirdly, probably for moving to another country where English is the first language. Most of the times that I get requests for these tests, it normally seems to be in quite a rush.

People are wanting their results quite quickly because they want to emigrate to England, Ireland, Wales, whatever, in the next six months or so. So that leads to quite an intensive period of learning, but many positive experiences and stories with these students. And most of the time they do achieve that because they're very motivated and dedicated to that goal. I think learning another language.

And if we focus on English in this case, they need to have that commitment and that motivation to really be consistent for a long period of time. And when you speak about the IELTS or whatever, that's the perfect ingredient for getting them to achieve it and move to another country.

Euan (19:46)
Absolutely. Now, I want to ask about, you know, we talk about the kind of things that you cover, but I think something specifically I wanted to ask is, how would you describe your own style of teaching? And how did you come to that particular style? Were there any sort of influences that you had, any teachers that you watched and thought, oh, that's really good, I'm going to try and use that? Or was it sort of just gradually found your own kind of groove? If you like.

Benjamin (19:58)
Cool.

This is all my opinion, but it may not be true. So we will see whether people agree. But I like to think that it's dynamic. I think one thing that we touched upon earlier when we compared business English in Valencia to what I do now, which is, I don't like to follow a textbook just for the sake of it. I like to try and analyze what I think the student needs.

Euan (20:13)
Well, that's podcasting. That's…

Benjamin (20:37)
which is not always what they say they need. Sometimes they don't match up and try to give them what I think they're missing, whether that is a lack of vocabulary, a weakness in their grammar or something else. And I would say that I should have started with creating a good environment. I think that I try to make a, you know, safe, calm, relaxed and confident environment so that they can be themselves and then let their English come out through being themselves because…

The thing that I have seen the most, in my opinion, is so many people that are shy, lack confidence, timid, they feel vulnerable when they speak and it doesn't need to be that way, it shouldn't be that way. Maybe they've had bad experiences in school with English teachers who only made them do grammar exercises and not speak or maybe people have made fun of them. So that's something that I've really tried to focus on and I guess…

that comes from learning Spanish or trying to learn German is I feel that lack of confidence when I'm speaking because I know my accent is not like a Spaniard but I have to communicate and if I feel confident I don't think about my words so much but if I'm nervous I make so many mistakes because I'm second guessing myself.

Euan (21:55)
That's a really, really interesting point. I'm not actually sure that's come up. And I mean, we've done five series of this podcast by the time that this episode comes out. And the stuff that, you know, things about like embarrassment, that never really comes up. And it's gotta be something that a lot of people go through. And we talk about kind of travel and we talk about, you know, what people go through and that kind of leads us nicely to next question. So we're gonna talk a little bit later on in the break about the kind of travel that you do for work, but.

I mean, was your idea always to have this sort of travel and working parts of your life to be mutually exclusive? I mean, you know, you've got your own business, you could teach classes online and in person. You know, what's the sort of main kind of focus for you? You've talked before about the different places that you've been. You know, is that a major motivation? Or do you find that you meet lots of people from all over the world by doing classes online? Kind of what's your kind of scope there really?

Benjamin (22:47)
Definitely. We have had the privilege of meeting many students who I teach in the countries that I have visited. Poland, Spain, the UAE, the UK, to name a few. I consider myself to be quite positive, naturally, and that was kind of, you know, built in me from my upbringing and from my life. However, when I started this, I would say I had this as a goal, to be able to be really flexible, to be, to explore.

And to continue the business. But if you had asked me at that moment how confident I was, 10%, 15%, 20%, I didn't truly believe that it could be reached. We touched upon earlier the fact that if you have the right qualifications and you have the right intention, you can make it a reality. And so I was always also looking for inspiration online. I was looking for people that had done…

this already to try and see the blueprints. And I mean, yes, it existed, but maybe not in the way that I wanted it to exist. Even though I love traveling and I love seeing the world, I don't necessarily like doing it with a backpack on, you know, computer in my hand and then doing a class from any random cafe. I like to have stability. I like to have peace and quiet and calm, but also do my work from other places. So…

I hope that people can realise that that's possible. You've got to build up to that, and you've got to get the right qualifications and the right knowledge, but it's doable. And I would say my goals and my objectives develop over time as you have new experiences and new knowledge, then your thoughts about the future change a little bit as well.

Euan (24:33)
Now, I want to talk about the in-person English courses that you do in London, because from a professional perspective, it makes absolute sense. You know, London is a huge city. It's massively multicultural. But does it also kind of function as a way of keeping you anchored to your home city? Because I know that, you know, a lot of Londoners have a really deep affection for where they're from, but that doesn't necessarily stop them from wanting to travel the world. Is it kind of a nice?

Benjamin (24:38)
Boom.

Euan (24:56)
Is it a sort of nice thing that you get to kind of come back and do those classes? Because I think anyone in the world would be like motivated by the idea of having a couple weeks at home. Did that factor into your mind at all?

Benjamin (24:58)
Thanks for watching!

Yes and no. Definitely it does to some degree. However, my family situation is not regular, let's say. I do have family at home, but my mum passed away for example, so it takes away, thank you very much, it's okay, but it takes away certain anchors that you once had there. So I definitely do enjoy, I love the fact that my job brings me back to…

Euan (25:10)
Okay.

I'm sorry.

Benjamin (25:37)
London to the UK. But it's also, you know, it's quite a, I use it as a selling point. I'm from London, I can show you the city. It's a really nice business move. And it's also an opportunity to see people face to face and to get away from the computer for a period of time. I do love going back and I would miss it if I spent a quite a long period of time away. But whenever I do go back…

I don't recognise it as home. I recognise it as a past home and a part of my life in the past. And I can't say that I recognise Germany as home, but I feel like London was my past. It is part of my present, but it's not necessarily a place that my heart belongs to, that I need to stay entwined with forever.

Euan (26:10)
Mmm.

Benjamin (26:34)
It just makes sense from both sides at this point in time.

Euan (26:39)
Absolutely, yeah, that's a really, really interesting perspective. And I've got to guess, you know, from a teaching perspective, again, you kind of touched on it there, but I'm imagining that demand's got to be extremely high given the population of London, you know, given how many people want to move to London, how, you know, it's just one of these cities where you can, you know, you can sell the rest of your life if you want to. So what's it like kind of coming back and teaching what the lessons like? I'm going to guess that is a really enthusiastic group of people that you're teaching.

Benjamin (27:06)
most definitely, and they are from every different country in the world, which makes it, you know, incredible. And no one normally speaks the same language, which means they are forced to speak in English. Try to keep it as dynamic as possible. We have the next course in April. We have, you know, 12 spaces and they are full, which we are very grateful for that to be the case. And, you know, students from Spain, Germany, Brazil, Colombia, Switzerland, France. So it's a lot of fun.

And I think one of the biggest things about this job and what it gives you is an awareness of the world, an awareness of different cultures, an awareness of different ethnicities and backgrounds. And you learn so much. You teach them as much as they teach you. So it's really beautiful and really, really positive and exciting, I would say.

Euan (28:01)
I'm just wondering there, as someone who, you know, you certainly look more useful than I do, so I've got to, you know, make certain assumptions that… But no, you do, it's fine. But as someone who's really with…

Benjamin (28:07)
In fact, not at all.

I do have a good light, Ewan. I have a very bright light. Ha ha ha!

Euan (28:17)
You'll see in the clips listeners, you'll see. Anyway, so as someone who's as passionate about what they do and as passionate about the places that you move to, you speak about both Valencia and Hamburg with a great deal of affection. But equally, I think when a teacher moves for the first time, as you did to Valencia, there's, I think probably 98, 99% of people are gonna feel homesick to some kind of degree. And that's something that I've actually written about relatively recently. So I want to get your perspective.

And maybe some advice, you know, what would you recommend for TEFL teachers who might feel homesick after their first big move or even their 13th big move?

Benjamin (28:52)
Hmm, great question. And I cannot give the perfect advice when it comes to being homesick. The only thing I can say is that when I moved abroad, I had a timeframe in mind. So I knew that I wouldn't return home just because I was suffering, but I thought that it would take me at least two years to feel comfortable. So I imagined that beginning period of time was gonna be complicated.

I might not have great friends, I might not speak the language well, everything will be strange, the food will be strange, my family will be far. But I was confident in the reasons as to why I moved, and so I must stick it out for that period of time. I remember my father was in Mexico at the time, he lived there at that moment, and I have two sisters who are, you know, half English, half Mexican, and I visited them. And I went there for two weeks.

And I had to stop over in Los Angeles, only because it was cheaper to get to Mexico indirectly rather than directly. And when I was in LA, I didn't want to move to LA, but it was like, oh, this would be so much easier, but why don't I just escape the vicious circle that I'm in and go somewhere where I can speak in English? I understand the culture better and just enjoy more. And my dad reminded me, you need to finish your time.

If you reach the two years and you still feel the same way, think about it, but don't just throw in the towel because you're feeling discomfort in the beginning because it's a guarantee that you're gonna feel uncomfortable. And nowadays we're so well connected. We can speak on Zoom, WhatsApp. We can even fly back if we're willing to travel with Ryanair. So, that was my thought process.

Euan (30:44)
There goes our Ryanair sponsorship. Yes.

Benjamin (30:47)
If you know how to say Ryanair, please cut that out. Ha ha ha!

Euan (30:50)
It's all fine, don't worry. No, so essentially, if I'm understanding you correctly, it's about kind of, yes, in the short term you might feel a certain pull to home or whatever home represents, but it's about kind of thinking long term and realizing that the moments where you're going to be enjoying yourself are longer than the times where you're feeling a bit of a pull home. Is that a fair assessment?

Benjamin (31:01)
Thank you.

Yes, I think so. And I think you've got to think about the bigger picture, even if you are 18, 19, 20, 21, even if you're just starting out, you've got to think about what you value the most and what you want to take from it. Of course, everyone values their family and everyone values their friends. But if that's so important to you…

And that's the number one priority. You might not have taken that leap of faith and moved to Spain or moved to another country. So I think it's always important to keep those in mind and remember, I love my family, I love my friends, I love my hometown, but I can also see such benefit from continuing on this journey.

Euan (32:05)
talking of journey, again you're giving me amazing segues here, thank you, it's gonna be really easy to edit. Both Hamburg where you're based now and Valencia where you were based before, in different ways, you know, and obviously they're very distinct cities but they're both major cities, major metropolitan areas with a multicultural international feel. Did you sort of make a conscious choice to live in places that were never really busy and feel different cultures and maybe had parallels with the experience that you had growing up or was it again kind of circumstance and different factors at

Benjamin (32:09)
Hehe

I would say probably the latter. It was more different circumstances in play that brought me there. With regard to Valencia, it felt like a sensible option. With Hamburg, it was more of a, you know, my wife being from Germany, it made sense to move here. I do love the peace and quiet. I love the nature. I love the, you know, going outside and seeing the water, for example. However, if I think about the day to day, I enjoy…

you know, experiences with other people, I enjoy being able to do different activities or go to the cinema. So those cities give you certain opportunities that if you're slightly more disconnected, you might lack that. And also I guess there's a sense of not being as lonely. I don't suffer from that at all now, but when I moved, of course I felt lonely. And if I'm in a bit of a busier place, I have the opportunity to try and solve that problem rather than being a bit more isolated.

Euan (33:34)
Mm-hmm. Again, that's a really, really great take.

Now, it'd be remiss of me not to mention your social media following because it's massive. It's huge. And if I put a direct number to it, I know it will have increased by the time this goes out and I'll look like a bit of an idiot. So we won't do numbers, but can you tell us what it was like building that up? Because that has to have been a mixture of kind of hard work and taking opportunities at the correct times. Is that right?

Benjamin (33:50)
Thank you.

Definitely, I would say so. Thank you for the introduction. And it was, no, it was beautiful. And needs must, let's say, needs must in terms of starting the social media. And also I must say that I did not do it on my own at all. We started after COVID, well actually when lockdown started, because there were two options. Move back to London because the money was going to run out very quickly. Or…

try to find students online because we were not allowed to leave our house. And TikTok was the first port of call. That was the first introduction into social media. And I started trying to record videos and there has been an incredible improvement in my ability to speak in front of the camera if we compare then to now. I hope no one sees any of the old videos. And I was editing and putting them up and TikTok was very organic at that time. Many people were

getting great reach. And so at that time, that was my girlfriend, now my wife. She wanted to support me and she had studied in, you know, business and management and social media. And also she saw my lack of ability of putting good colors and fonts and designs together and gave me a helping hand. And that was how the, let's say more professional aspects came into play. And since then, you know, we have continued.

Euan (35:24)
Mm-hmm.

Benjamin (35:27)
churning out content on a weekly or daily basis. And I would say the key is that we enjoy it. We see a future with the online social media and we enjoy working together and creating things to share with the students. So those would be my takeaways for success. And the reason why there has been a transformation, I think is the key to succeeding on social media. You must continue improving, adapting and trying to understand what…

the students or the audience are looking for when it comes to content.

Euan (36:02)
Absolutely. And as someone who's obviously as switched on as the two of you are in terms of what works in social media and that kind of thing, I'm just sort of wondering in a more practical sense, and I know listeners will want to do their own version of this, when you plan content for let's say a period of a week or two weeks, is it a case of working ad hoc and thinking, oh, this would be good? Or do you plan it out well in advance and

Benjamin (36:18)
Yes.

Euan (36:28)
shoot a bunch of videos in one day and kind of schedule them? Or how does it work without giving away any secrets, obviously?

Benjamin (36:35)
Should I tell you the politically correct answer or the truth?

Euan (36:42)
I feel like the truth would be a more sensational clip. So let's go for it

Benjamin (36:48)
The truth is that I am very much, we need to record videos, what are we going to do? And then we look at each other and we think what would the best idea would be? I think her idea from a more, you know, professional, observational type of way is let's have a plan for the week and the month. And we know that, okay, we have more time on a Saturday or Sunday, we'll record it and then edit it throughout the week.

Euan (37:14)
Hmm.

Benjamin (37:14)
But it doesn't always work out like that. At the moment, we have a nice collection of videos that we can upload. However, there are moments where we have nothing and we just have to think of ideas. We take inspiration by scrolling and we also think what videos did well, why did they do well, and how can we take the essence of that video but turn it into something fresh without copying what someone else has done. Of course, everything has already been done.

in one way or another, but if you just try and say that got a million views, I'm going to do that, it's not going to work. So you've got to make it, I think, authentic to your style and to your own thoughts.

Euan (37:59)
And with having such a widespread following and having so many people tuning in to what you're doing, has there ever been a particular interaction or someone getting in touch with you where you thought, oh my goodness, that's surreal? Has anything really, really surprised you? I mean, obviously, has anything surprised you that we can actually air?

Benjamin (38:12)
I'm going to go to bed.

You'll be the judge of that after this next few seconds.

We, you know, everything's positive. I mean, and I think I deal with it quite well because it's not personal. It's just, you put yourself out there and you get so much in return. You get many inappropriate messages, many. You get, you know, there have been moments where I have been recognized, you know, in the street and that's very weird, you know, because you can't imagine that happening. And you…

get the opportunity to sometimes actually meet your students who you have met or who have found you through social media. I will never say anything negative, even if someone says something like, why are you doing an ad? Why are you advertising your courses? Why are you advertising your classes? As if everything should just be free teaching content. It's nothing personal, I mean.

Everyone has their own thoughts. You are welcome to that. And if I advertise my courses or if I do collaborations, it's not every post, every once in a while. So it comes with the territory.

Euan (39:40)
Well, I mean, I had previously thought until that answer that you were the perfect person who would never advertise anything. But I guess, you know, that's, that's where we are now. Yes, as the man who's introduced three adverts in this podcast, but you know, obviously, you know, the social media has obviously intertwined with your business in a pretty profound way. You know, it's probably as if I don't want to, you know,

Benjamin (39:48)
But here we are.

Ha ha ha!

Euan (40:06)
speak for you, but I would hazard a guess that it's kind of the number one way to get students at this point. And so were you surprised at how kind of seamlessly the two intertwined or you know, have you ever sort of those two factors ever rubbed up each other kind of in a less than ideal way or has it all been, you know, one helping the other and being a pretty holistic kind of experience?

Benjamin (40:28)
I think very positive, very holistic and supporting each other. You know, I started it to get students and obviously we are very far from that now, but that was my only intention. It was not to get views or to collaborate with brands. I couldn't imagine that. It was just get 10 students, you know, earn a fair wage from those classes and continue living in Spain. So I think that was a very positive beginning and it allowed me to continue organically.

And if I think about advertising of the past, you know, the, the yellow pages or, you know, radio advertisements, TV advertisements, those were how people would typically advertise their business. But now we are here on a podcast. We do YouTube videos, we do Instagram videos, and that's how we're trying to get our message out. And whether it's a designer fashion brand, whether it's an company or anything.

I think everyone's trying to use social media to their advantage. And one takeaway that I really feel passionate about is there's a difference between sharing your business online and getting views. There are so many companies or people that have millions of views and so many followers. That doesn't mean that it will positively impact your business. That doesn't mean that it will convert into paying customers or loyal customers. And so.

in the videos that we do, it's about portraying us or myself in the way that we are, so that you see the business when you see the videos. It's seamlessly entwined, I would say.

Euan (42:11)
And in terms of kind of, you know, on a similar kind of kind of thing, but maybe a slightly different route. Obviously, you know, as someone who, you know, you put a lot of kind of yourself into the social media presence. So there's a lot of it is about, you know, things that you've learned and things that you've, you know, teaching interactions that you've had that you share again on an Instagram meal and say, well, this is, you know, what we did. And, you know, but when it comes to kind of that social media, when you're putting so much of yourself into the kind of the business page and what your teacher page, you know, does

Do you ever feel that you have to be constantly switched on, in a sort of teacher business mode? Or do you feel like you're able to have this dissonance between, okay, work social media and personal social media, and they're two very different things. I mean, is that ever a factor for you?

Benjamin (42:57)
I do feel like I have to be very switched on, and so does my wife, because we work on it together. Obviously the difference is she's not, you know, her face is not on there, so that is a difference. I don't have really any personal social media. I think I only use social media for business. For me it is a tool. But I would say that what you see is quite fairly representative of me, so I don't need to necessarily…

turn a switch and be someone else. Of course I need to speak slightly clearer and to be careful with certain opinions that I give, of course, but generally speaking, it's a fair representation. So it's also something I guess you learn to live with. You take the good with the bad. Yes, the downsides are that you're constantly on social media and you never get to switch off. You've always got to be uploading. However…

It gives you the life that you want to live. You can't complain about something that allows you to live abroad and travel and, you know, meet people from all over the world. I guess, I guess it's the mindset that you have. I've heard many people complain, oh, I need a social media detox. I need to disconnect. It's too much. Fine. Fair enough. But you chose that life. You chose to make a business based upon your following. And then you say, oh, I'm going to.

Euan (44:03)
Mm-hmm.

Benjamin (44:21)
switch off when I feel like it. I don't think it's not as easy as that.

Euan (44:27)
That's yeah, that's a really powerful kind of idea actually. And kind of talking about, you know, how you use social media and how you used your teaching and sort of combine them into, as you described it, the life you want to live. That's something, you know, you've done immensely successfully. So therefore we have to spread the wealth a little bit. What advice would you give to teachers who want to become self-employed, who want to have the kind of life teaching abroad that you've had? What would be your kind of main?

Just certain nuggets of advice if you like.

Benjamin (44:58)
I would say the first thing is to have some sort of stability. You don't want to be worried about where your next paycheck is going to come from in an extreme way. And that means that you need to have a base of students or connections. That would be my first piece of advice. From there, you can grow and you can develop and you can think about what you want to specialise in. I think that I probably specialise in fluency, whatever that means. But that's my…

speciality and I focus more on advanced students who want to master the language, but that wasn't the case in the beginning. It was, you know, take whatever you can so that you grow, that you develop, so that you learn, and so that you have that confidence and that stability or that support. That would be my big takeaway. I'm not going to say you must do social media because it's not necessary, but I do think you need either connections in your…

hometown maybe, or the place that you're living, maybe with a local academy, maybe you need to reach out to businesses, figure out what's comfortable for you and then move forward from there. If you could do that, I think you will see that many more opportunities will come that you did not anticipate. For me, even if I have my desires and my goals for the future, that doesn't mean that they are gonna come true as I think they are, but they could come true.

in an even better way, but differently. So, but for me, none of that can happen without the stability and the confidence of having some students and having some work, basically.

Euan (46:42)
I love that, that's a great answer. And just to kind of round things off, it's been a really, really good conversation. I know I'm very, very grateful you took the time to speak to us today. So finally, I'm gonna give you an opportunity to maybe handful of people that don't know where to find you. Where can people find you? If they ever want to take a fluency course or just sort of follow what you're doing in social media, where should we be directing people?

Benjamin (46:57)
Hehehehe

Thank you very much. I mean, if you are interested, then it would be on Instagram or on YouTube at English Life with Benjamin. And you can also find our Telegram channel, Threads channel. The link is in the Instagram bio. So, you know, I look forward to hearing from any of you if you have any questions or any support. Thank you very much.

Euan (47:26)
got quite a rambunctious listenership so I would expect a message or two but they're very they're very polite don't get me wrong. Benjamin it's been an absolute pleasure talking… well yeah sorry. Well yeah Benjamin it's been fantastic talking to you thanks so much for taking time to speak to us for the podcast

Benjamin (47:34)
As long as they don't say… Sorry, sorry, please.

Thank you so much for the time, it was a pleasure. You made it so easy and natural, and I do apologize for, you know, destroying your possible collaboration with Ryanair, but I'm sure there are better things around the corner.

Euan (48:02)
Propeller planes maybe, yeah. Okay, great, thank you very much.