Patrick Smith

Euan (00:00)
Hello and welcome to I Talk English Abroad and I'm really really excited today because it's a pretty major coup for us. We're speaking to Patrick Smith who you might know better as at the paper pat on TikTok. And if you did know him, you're probably one of his million followers. We'll get into social media later on, but this is a pretty big coup for us. Patrick, how are you doing today?

Patrick Smith (00:21)
I am doing well. Thank you for having me today. How are you doing?

Euan (00:25)
I can't complain, Patrick, I can't complain. And so, you know, obviously, you know, your time is very valuable. We'll get right into it. But tell us about your upbringing. For people who don't know who you are, maybe. I'm sure there are some. Was there any sort of teaching influence or kind of multilingual influence in your sort of upbringing? How did you get to the point where you're at now, which is, you know, being an American teacher of English in Japan?

Patrick Smith (00:51)
Um, I guess as far as, um, teaching influence, uh, I never really growing up, I never really had a, an interest in teaching. Um, I grew up in a somewhat large family. I had three other siblings. Um, and we, we grew up in Flint, Michigan, um, with my parents. Um, Flint is kind of known for.

Not the best reasons. It's not the safest place. It also had like a big water crisis, um, a number of years ago, but that's where I grew up. Um, and, uh, yeah, I, I was never really interested in teaching. It wasn't until I, um, moved into China and sort of began teaching there because I wanted to just, I needed a way to get into the country basically. Um, long story short.

Euan (01:48)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (01:49)
And so it was during that time that I kind of discovered I enjoyed working with students and teaching them and that interest sort of grew and grew over the next few years as I continued teaching in both China and then eventually in Japan. But yeah, there was no real huge influence in terms of just education that was impressed upon me as a kid growing up.

And as far as language, like, no, I, my parents, I don't think speak any other languages. Um, my siblings don't really, it was just, I didn't have friends who were, um, versed in different languages or bilingual at all. It was just a result of me living in these countries where there is a language, um, that is spoken that is different than my, my native tongue that I sort of just, you know, you have to learn the language.

Um, so yeah, I would say that's sort of the background there.

Euan (02:52)
Cool. I actually have friends who live in Grand Rapids. So yeah, I know Michigan a little bit. Yeah, go blue. But yeah. So you talked there about kind of you had a single minded approach to what you wanted to be, where you wanted to be later in life. How young were you when you first got kind of that urge to explore, I guess, specifically China and Japan? Was it something you dreamt of for a long time? And at what point in your life did you reach China?

Patrick Smith (02:55)
Oh Grand Rapids, okay. Yeah.

Let's see. I think I initially began developing an interest, um, probably during my college years, like my early college years. Um, and that was, um, I grew up playing video games and, you know, watching different anime, like Dragon Ball Z and, um, Digimon was big when I was a kid. Um, but I wouldn't say video games or.

Uh, anime really had a big impact on me and sort of influenced my, um, future interest in living in either, well, I guess Japan or in China before that. Um, I would say it was more so, um, just a deep fascination with the culture and the languages. So it's sort of a two -part thing. I taught in China first. I was there for three years.

I was in Beijing, China teaching. And I think it was…

So prior to moving to China, I visited the country for about one month during my, just after my third year of college, just for like a volunteer sort of trip, like doing volunteer work in the country. And I made friends, made connections there. And I learned a little bit, like tiny little bit of the language and experienced some of the, you know, the culture there. And I was really interested in moving back. And so that's why I took that teaching job.

Like I said, to just get back into the country and be able to reconnect with friends I made there and to learn more about the culture and the language. But my older sister was teaching in Japan at the same time that I was teaching in China. And so I had, during my college years, sort of began to develop an interest in Japan because it was like,

you know, Tokyo, Japan, that's like really cool place. I want to go there someday. Maybe I can visit the Nintendo headquarters, which aren't in Tokyo, I don't think, but, um, they might be, I'm not sure where they're at. At the time it was like, okay, I want to go to Nintendo someday. I want to like see Japan. And it was like a, just a small, you know, far away dream. Um, but then when I was in China and I had the chance to visit my sister while she was teaching in Japan, um,

Euan (05:33)
Yeah.

Thank you.

Patrick Smith (05:50)
that sort of became more real to me. And I was like, oh, I could actually like move here and live here and continue teaching here. Cause that's an easy way for foreigners to get into the country. Also. And so after three years in China, I then made the transition to Japan to a city up North that not many people know is called Sendai. And after five and a half years there, I moved down to Tokyo.

Euan (06:04)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (06:18)
And I still haven't visited the Nintendo headquarters, but maybe someday I will. But it's, it's been great. I've, I've realized since then that teaching is actually something I'm really passionate about. Um, I got my teaching license this past year and, um, my American teaching license. And so this, the decision I made to get that was sort of. After a number of years teaching English specifically, I think it was maybe.

Eight years teaching English I had here in Japan. And I decided I want to like further my skills, like deepen my skills, um, as an educator and be the best educator I can be for my students. Um, and open up more doors for me, um, more opportunities here in the country. And so, um, yeah, it was sort of a, a big moment for me where I realized this is actually what I want to do. I want to teach. I never.

I had a plan to teach growing up, but this is something I've realized I think I'm made for. So yeah, I pursued that and now I'm teaching in an international school here in Japan. And yeah, living life. Still learning the language, slowly but surely. But yeah, having a good time.

Euan (07:32)
That's amazing.

That's so cool. And let's talk about, I love that you kind of got to that conclusion of that you love teaching that you're made for it. I kind of want to hear about the first experiences you had in China, because as you said, pretty near the start, it wasn't always the plan that you'd be teaching. And it was kind of a route to sort of to living there. And now obviously you're a fully fledged teacher. You're someone who's really, really passionate about it. And you kind of spread that message worldwide. But I want to go back to his initial lessons. You're in China.

What were you kind of feeling at that point? Were you kind of, I mean, what were your sort of attitudes going into it? Because you maybe didn't realize how much you would end up loving it. Were you nervous in those first classes or was there kind of a sort of detachment because you're just like, okay, I'm maybe not doing this for the rest of my life kind of thing. Just kind of talk us through that phase.

Patrick Smith (08:20)
Hmm. Yeah. Good question. I think, yeah, that first year in China, I remember being really nervous. Um, cause I, I taught middle school and high school. I taught at like taught seventh grade students and, um, like 10th grade students. So they were what? 13, 14, 12, 13 years old. And then the older group was maybe like 15, 16 years old.

Euan (08:26)
Thank you.

Patrick Smith (08:48)
And they were big classes of students and I had multiple classes to teach throughout the week. And I remember like some of them were taller than me. Some of the like the older kids, um, and I'm pretty tall. And so I remember being not, not intimidated by them, but I remember thinking like, Oh man, this is, this is like a big deal. Like I've never taught before. Um, and I remember.

They, the kids themselves, the students, they were pretty surprised, I think, when I walked in. Um, cause most foreign teachers that they had were white teachers. Um, That was sort of the, I think, standard for, for most of the classes in the past. Um, and so walking in as a black American was very, very shocking for them. But, um,

Euan (09:46)
Right, yeah.

Patrick Smith (09:46)
They all thought I was really cool. I'm not at all a cool person, but they all thought I was the coolest person. Um, and they, they were really just, I remember the first lesson of each class is just like an introductory PowerPoint that I go through explaining who I am and where I'm from and all these things. And at the end of the class, I'd have them write different questions on slips of paper and give them to me at the end of the class so I can answer them throughout the, the next couple of weeks.

Euan (09:50)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (10:14)
And some of the questions were always, they were really interesting, but a lot of them were like, do you really have this many people in your family? Um, cause a lot of the students were the only, only kid in their family. Cause that was the policy in China for many years. Um, some of them were like, like, uh, what do you do in your free time? Cause they were the education system in China. It's really intense. The students have.

Euan (10:16)
Oh cool.

course. Yeah.

Patrick Smith (10:44)
little to no free time, they study, study, study. And so, yeah, it was a big deal for them to, to meet an American, like not just a, not just a, I wouldn't even say just an American, but like a black American made them just like really wonder about what I was into. Like what, do you listen to rap? Do you listen to hip hop? Which I don't so much, you know, there's all these different basketball, these things. I got those kinds of questions a lot. Um,

Euan (11:09)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (11:14)
But it was a good time. It was really interesting. I really enjoyed my classes, my students in China. Yeah, I have really fond memories of those times. It was nerve wracking in the very beginning, but it didn't take long for me to be comfortable with them. They were very comfortable with me. Yeah, it was a good time.

Euan (11:34)
I love that. And so did you find a similar kind of, well, first of all, I have to point out, it must be so great that, you know, you said there, they thought you were cool from the off. Like that's got to be such an advantage if you go to, you meet a group of people and they're just like, right, okay, this guy's cool. Like that's a good head start. But did you find, you know, because obviously kind of from based on the TikToks and, you know, interviews you've had, you know, nowadays in Japan,

Patrick Smith (11:45)
You changed yourself.

That's right.

Euan (12:03)
Certainly in the last couple of years in Japan, you've taught with the young students and we'll talk about how that provides its own set of challenges later on. But did you find when you first started teaching in Japan that you got a similar kind of reaction to the kids in China or was it different? What was it like when you first came into a Japanese classroom?

Patrick Smith (12:21)
Yeah, I would say it was pretty different. Not only because most of my students were a lot younger, like first grade, second grade, to like six years old, seven year old, eight year old kids. But I did also teach some middle school, high school students as well. But I would say all of them were very, they behaved very differently than Chinese students.

Chinese students tend to be, I think Chinese people in general are just more, they're more kind of blunt with things. And they'll, they'll say things that come to their mind, which is very different than Japan where it's very much like, oh, we don't want to like, inconvenience anyone around us, we'll be as polite as possible to people. And so, and there's a, I think both countries.

really respect, um, educators and teachers, but, um, Chinese students would be quick to ask questions. They, they had no issues with asking questions. Also, they could speak English usually a bit better than my Japanese students, even though the, there's an intense, you know, um, presence in terms of like the studying, the, the like homework, the studying atmosphere in Japan, it's, it's very similar to China, but.

Euan (13:31)
Okay.

Patrick Smith (13:44)
the students in China are just more aggressive with their English practice than Japanese students are in terms of speaking. Japanese students can read and write English. They learn all that in school, but when it comes to speaking, they don't really try as hard. And as a result, their level is a bit lower. They're much more shy to speak up because they don't want to make a mistake. Chinese

students that I had would just like, they would say whatever, which is actually pretty important for learning a language. Like you, you have to not be afraid to make mistakes when speaking a language or when learning a language. Um, and that, that was not the case in Japan. So, um, it was different because my students in Japan were way quieter in class, but, um, I think also they were a bit more scared of me. I think.

They may have thought I was cool. I'm not sure. Um, but I think there was a healthy dose of fear, um, which may have been, maybe that could be attributed to different stereotypes that exist of black people. I'm not sure. Maybe it was just the fact that like, they did not, many of them had never had like face to face interactions with a black person before. Um, and so that kind of shock.

Euan (14:47)
Okay.

Patrick Smith (15:07)
maybe made them freeze up a bit, I'm not sure. But yeah, it was a lot more reserved, a lot more of a reserved atmosphere. Again, amongst the older students, I would say with the young kids I taught in Japan, like kids are kids. So they're just gonna be, they're gonna say a lot, they're gonna play a lot, they're gonna, you know, I like to like rough around with my students. And so that really helped to like ease any sort of…

not tension, because at six years old kids don't really have tension so much in a classroom, but like any sort of like initial like nervousness, I usually put a lot of effort into dispelling that with just like being goofy with the kids, saying silly things, making them laugh, you know, pick up a kid, swing them around or something. And so that was very different than trying to, because you can't really do that with 15 year olds.

Euan (15:41)
Yeah, exactly.

Patrick Smith (16:04)
And so, yeah, it was pretty different, but I wouldn't say one was worse than the other. I really, I've really enjoyed teaching Japanese kids. They're, I have some of my best memories as an educator with my students in Japan. But I also have some of my best memories, some of my best memories with my students in China, because it was, it was just so different, but in a good way. Yeah. So I don't know if that answered your question fully, but hopefully that kind of did.

Euan (16:05)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

I know it absolutely did. Absolutely did. And just before we go to a quick break, there's there's so much in there that I'm going to kind of mine later on. But, you know, first of all, you know, Japan is a major, major market for for Tefl teachers. It's one of the kind of top three places I would imagine most Tefl teachers want to go. And, you know, that's it's based on it's based on speaking to people. It's not a sort of thing of plucked out of nowhere. You know, Japan's hugely popular for Tefl teachers. And so one thing they're going to want to know.

How easy was it for you to find work in Japan? Because you had taught in China, obviously, and you had some, you'd built up some experience. But what did that kind of account for when you got to Japan? How quickly were you able to find work?

Patrick Smith (17:16)
So I was really lucky when I first moved to Japan because like I said, my older sister was teaching here while I was in China. So I was able to actually apply to the same school that she was at while I was in China. And then, you know, they, I went through the whole interview process and they hired me. So when I moved into the country, I already had a job lined up for me. And I've had, let's see, two.

Yeah. Two other, I've taught at two other schools since that one, my current school. And then the one I taught once I moved into Tokyo. Um, and it was, it wasn't hard. Let's see the job I got when I moved into Tokyo, I found that one on gaijinpot .com, which is a website I've, um, recommended lots of times on my social media to people who are interested in, um, teaching in Japan. Um, there's lots of job listings there and, um,

So I just kind of scoured the website and looked for a job at a school and in an area I was interested in, in Tokyo and, um, yeah, found, found one applied and everything worked out really well, really smoothly. As far as my current job, um, it's an international school that is not on gaijin pot. Um, but I have, I had a friend who worked there and she actually.

Um, recommended that I recommend to me the school and, um, and so I applied, I think to the school months and months before the hiring process began. Um, because I was just really, really interested. I said, I really want to work here. So let me just send something like eight, nine months in advance just to get my name, you know, in the, in the hat. And so, um, yeah, interview, interview process happened and everything, you know, worked out.

Euan (18:55)
Bye.

Patrick Smith (19:11)
I would say I have heard stories that it is a little bit difficult for some people to find work even when they look on gaijin pot. Um, and I'm not sure why that might be. It could be because of the large influx of people who are interested in teaching in Japan, all applying at the same time. Um, you know, we had the global pandemic recently and once those borders opened up this past year, I think it was, um,

Euan (19:33)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (19:41)
There was, there were so many foreign people coming into the country. Like lots of tourists were coming in and probably people who had found work, um, teaching at different schools. And so it may have been hard for people to find work after, you know, suddenly everything's open again. Everyone's applying at the same time. Like it could have been a number of reasons, but, um, Gaijin Pa is always my first, um, recommendation for people who are looking for.

Euan (19:48)
Uh huh.

Patrick Smith (20:09)
work as an English teacher in Japan because it has so many different options and lots of schools in Japan, you know, they supply their information to different websites that foreign people use frequently because they know like this is where people are going to look. So, yeah, I would say check out Gaijinpot if you're looking for a teaching job.

Euan (20:30)
You

So obviously we have to talk about TikTok. We have to. We're compelled by law to talk about TikTok, especially given that you've got over a million followers. And by the time this goes out, I don't know, it could be much more of a that, I have no idea. But when did you start kind of deciding to document your experiences in Japan? Because obviously people have responded to it in such a massive way. You know, was there kind of a moment where you thought…

I need to tell people about this or was it a general sort of here's my experience I'm teaching in Japan, here's what you should know. What was your kind of attitude before launching into it?

Patrick Smith (21:02)
Yeah. So it's a really interesting, I, I'm pretty sure for the first like maybe month or two that I was on Tik TOK. I didn't want people to know I was a teacher. Actually. I, I would post. So when I made Tik TOK, it was a recommendation, um, that a friend had given me because I, at my school, I used to make a lot of silly dances for the kids. Um, and she was like, you should.

You should do these on Tik TOK. You should make dances for Tik TOK or like do the different dance trends that are there. Cause I, I like dancing. I'm like, I'm not bad at dance. I'm not great, but I'm not bad at dancing. So she's like, you should do dances on Tik TOK. And I kind of was like, uh, I don't know. Well, we'll see. Uh, I'll think about it. And then like, I think it was maybe a month or so after she had first recommended it to me that I actually made the account. It was October of 20. What was that?

2019, I guess, 2019. And I strictly did dances in the beginning. It was just like dance trends I was doing. And then I kind of branched out into silly like skits using funny audio that I would find on the app. And every now and then I would share something, like I would say something to the camera, like a tell a story or something.

And, but it was never teaching related at first. It was just like, I don't know, like experiences as a foreigner in Japan. Um, and then I kind of combined that aspect of my life with my students because the students, they would say so many funny things that I was like, I have to share this because it's, it connects to me being a foreigner in Japan.

So like, I'll kind of, I'll mention it. I won't dwell on it, but I'll kind of mention that I have students and they said this thing and those videos, people thought they were funny. Um, and so I would share more stories of silly things they would say or like turn things. They would say like interactions we would have into skits and be like, this actually happened to me just last week or something. And, um, it's sort of, I don't know. It's sort of just.

Euan (23:15)
Mm -hmm.

Patrick Smith (23:18)
organically grew into me mostly sharing stuff about my life as an educator in Japan. And the dance stuff, I barely post dances anymore. I still do story times every now and then, but it just sort of, I don't know, I just owned it, I guess. I was like, okay, this is me, I'm a teacher. Yep, I've been teaching here for this many years. And yeah, these are some of the crazy things that have happened to me as a teacher.

Um, but yeah, initially it was not, I was not at all about sharing my life as a teacher on tick tock.

Euan (23:52)
That kind of raises a couple of interesting questions there because when the videos, especially specifically the ones about teaching and about the experiences you have with students, when those started to amass such a major volume of shares, did it change the way that you obviously changed the way you made videos, but did it make you change the way that you thought about sharing content? And did it make you also kind of think…

Oh wow, this is interesting in a way, to other people this is interesting in a way I hadn't really perceived. Like, how did it change your mindset?

Patrick Smith (24:24)
It really did. Yeah. It, it, it was shocking to me because. TikTok wasn't most people thought of it at that time as the app for, for kids, for teens. Um, and it still, I think is pretty heavily used by young people, but I was shocked by how many adults were on the app and how many of them could relate to my experiences, how many foreigners there were who use the app and how many, um, like foreigners in Japan specifically.

Um, and how many fellow teachers there were who could relate to every single one of my experiences I shared. That was really shocking to me. Um, and it did make me want to share more because yeah, they followed me like upon seeing just one video. They're like, okay, I gotta follow this guy because he knows my life, you know? And that was not something I anticipated. It was like, I knew I was slowly gaining followers. Like.

very slowly gaining followers over the course of the first three, four months. Um, but when a number of my Tik TOKs went pretty viral, it was like, okay, I think it was once I moved to Tokyo. Cause right when I moved to Tokyo, um, Japan issued it's, um, state of emergency, like the week after I got to Tokyo, the state of emergency was announced. And so, um, so like nobody was going outside.

Euan (25:48)
Oh no.

Patrick Smith (25:52)
I mean, there were people outside, but like a lot of places were closing early. There were way less people going out. Um, people weren't coming into the country anymore. Um, and so a lot of people were at home, like classes were online for a lot of schools. Um, including my school, we were doing zoom lessons online. Um, and so since so many people were at home, not only in Japan, but of course, like in my home country, America.

Um, where there was like actual, you know, lockdown, um, situations happening. Lots of people like all around the world were just in their home. And so they had nothing to do, but watch tick tock a lot of them. And since I just happened to be posting my content at that time, they saw my, my videos and liked and followed. Um, and so, yeah, I feel kind of like.

I sort of have imposter syndrome. I'm like, I don't feel like I belong in this space because I really just got lucky. I just happened to be making content at the right time. Um, but, uh, yeah, it was crazy seeing how, how quickly after I moved to Tokyo, that thing started to snowball into what they are in terms of my numbers of followers. Um, but I'm grateful for it. It did. It did, um, make me aware though of.

Just how much, and this is actually something I was thinking through today. Um, a lot of people don't understand why students in Japan, Japanese kids don't have a broad understanding of ethnicity. Um, why they would look at me and be confused about why I'm Brown and say things like,

Oh, you've been in the sun too much, right, Mr. Patrick? Like a lot of people would get offended hearing me share these stories and would voice their offense in the comments. And I think I honestly don't share as much these days about interactions I have with students regarding my skin color or my hair or anything like that, because I know how hostile people can get.

Um, which is crazy cause it's like, and I've tried to explain so many times in my videos, like guys, these are six year olds. They live in a country where almost everybody looks very similar to them. They have not had face to face interactions with someone as dark as me probably ever in their lives. So of course they're going to think these things and wonder these things and ask me these questions. And it never offends me. Um,

Euan (28:16)
Mm.

Mm -hmm.

Patrick Smith (28:45)
It does make for good content because people, they really eat it up, but, um, yeah, it comes with a healthy dose of criticism. And so I just shared a story yesterday, um, on, on both tick -tock and Instagram about, um, an interaction I had this week with student, um, who was convinced that I could not smell nice because I'm brown. He assumed that was dirty and couldn't smell nice.

Euan (28:49)
Heh.

Patrick Smith (29:12)
And, um, I walked through how I explained why I'm brown to him. And, you know, we, uh, I had him smell my wrist where I spray cologne on myself every day. I didn't smell that. I'm like, see, I smell nice. Um, but, uh, I went on to explain, like, this is a conversation, like these types of conversations are going to happen probably as long as I live in this country because. Kids just, they don't know any better. And, um,

Euan (29:13)
Oh yeah.

Yes.

Patrick Smith (29:41)
A lot of people in the comments were like, Oh, they weren't really blaming him, but they were blaming his parents. Um, they said, this is learned behavior. He probably learned this from his parents. And I had to be like, guys, no, his parents are really kind and supportive parents. Like I've, I've talked with them multiple times and they've always been really kind to me. I cannot imagine that they're saying things like this to him at home. I could be wrong, but I don't think that's the case. I think this was, this was a conclusion that he came to by himself.

Um, and voiced it and I was able to step in and then correct that, that, um, that assumption that he made. Um, and so, yeah, it gets really interesting sharing that aspect of my life in Japan, but, um, I don't know. I don't really let crazy comments get to me. It's just like, whatever people are going to think what they're going to think. It's the internet. You could.

You could say the sky is blue and offend somebody these days. So I don't put too much thought into it. But yeah, it's it's it's an interesting ride.

Euan (30:43)
Yeah. Yeah.

That's not the s -

That's those are the cool things and you know if I'm not the person to ask this question you know I apologize and you can tell me that. I mean I'm just sort of wondering from your own perspective from an emotional point of view you know yes you are the first kind of point of contact in terms of a black person that a lot of these a lot of Japanese kids are going to meet and so you know they get the benefit of that of your lived experience in a sense they get the benefit of the fact that you're patient and you understand that there's no subtext they're just they haven't

Patrick Smith (30:55)
No worries.

Euan (31:18)
being exposed to different kinds of ethnicities. You know, from an emotional point of view, also, you know, having to absorb these comments on TikTok and that kind of thing. It is a great thing, undoubtedly, that you're, you know, you're helping these kids learn through a more sort of holistic kind of conversational way. Does it ever feel kind of tiring? Do you ever feel like there's a lot of kind of pressure on you and how you represent yourself in Japanese schools and that kind of thing? Does it ever, you know, is there ever kind of a point for you where you think, oh, okay.

this is I'm doing a good thing this is this is cool but it's kind of exhausting do you ever feel like that?

Patrick Smith (31:53)
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's something I've experienced for over 10 years, even in China. Like I said, I was there for three years before moving here. So it's been about 12 years. Yeah. Living abroad and teaching and having these kinds of conversations. The, the number of conversations, um, definitely it started to increase once I moved to Japan, because I started teaching younger kids, like really young kids who have.

No filter, you know, kids just have no filter in general. So it increased by quite a, quite a bit. But, um, you know, I honestly, I, it is tiring, but I think I was really well prepared for moving abroad and, and, um, facing these types of conversations and interactions simply because of the fact that growing up.

I grew up in a school full of white kids, to put it bluntly. There were no other black families at the school. Um, and in my neighborhood, like I had some black friends, but, um, I spent the majority of my time around my friends at school. And so I kind of adopted, I hate to put it this way, but quote unquote, like a white way of talking, um, as opposed to a quote unquote, black way of talking.

Euan (32:58)
Sure, yeah.

Right.

Patrick Smith (33:21)
Um, and at the end of the day, there's no such thing as talking white or talking black, but I face comments like that all the time. Growing up, people would say, Oh, you sound more like a white person than a black person. Um, from, from both black people and white people, I was always my siblings too. Like we always got those kinds of comments from people. Um, the second we would say something amongst black peers, they would say, they'd look at us funny. Like.

Euan (33:41)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (33:51)
you talking like that? They say, where do you go to school? And we tell them where and they'd be like, Oh, okay. Cause they knew lots of like white people were in that area. Um, and sometimes I would get made fun of like people would like mock the way that I'm talking because it sounds white. And then when I'm around my white peers, um, they would be like, Oh, can you say something black? Which is wild. Um, and so like, I felt, I always felt so much pressure as a kid growing up, like.

Euan (34:00)
Uh huh.

Right.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Patrick Smith (34:21)
I felt like I had to be a certain way, but I couldn't, I couldn't like change the way that I talked to please one audience or the other. It was just me being me, I was just myself, you know? And so I always lived in sort of that like weird area of like not feeling like I fit in anywhere and feeling like a sort of anomaly everywhere I go.

Um, and that was just in the U S so when I moved to Japan and to China and then Japan, it was like, I'm already used to standing out to not feel like I fit in to having comment, like people making comments to me about what I'm saying or doing. And so when I would get these con kind of comments and questions from students, it was like, okay, well, that's not something you should say to someone ever, but.

Like I can, I can handle it. I can deal with it because I've already dealt with stuff in the past. Um, different kinds of stuff, but like somewhat related, you know? So, um, so yeah, I think that really prepared me a lot for living abroad and for having these types of interactions with, with kids. So it doesn't really get to me. It is tiresome. It's, it's not fun. Um, but I do really enjoy getting the chance to explain things and watching the like light bulb go off in kids' heads.

Euan (35:38)
No.

Patrick Smith (35:43)
I remember sharing a series of videos on TikTok my first year in Tokyo, I guess it was about four years ago, where one student was saying like, Oh, Mr. Patrick, he said something like, you're like, Mr. Patrick is brown, it's not good. I can't remember exactly the whole conversation, but the point was he was saying that it was not good to be brown.

And so I had, I remember stopping everything and being like, okay, let's talk about this. Like my skin is brown. It's been brown ever since I was a baby. Like my parents are brown. My brother and sisters are brown. Like there are a lot of brown people in the world and that's fine. And the whole class was like, Oh, like they were kind of like, they were getting it. Um, and then the next time that I taught that class, I remember asking that the kid who said that direct, like, do you still think it's like bad to be brown? He was like, yeah.

I was like, Oh, well that makes you really sad to hear that. Remember I explained to you blah, blah, blah, the whole thing again. And I pulled out the class iPad that we had and I showed them pictures of black children. Um, so they could see like, Oh, they're kids like me, but they're brown, like Mr. Patrick. Oh, so there really are people of the world who are the same color as him, just to kind of make it more of a real, um, make that connection more real for them. And, um,

Euan (36:43)
Mm -hmm.

sure.

Patrick Smith (37:05)
And so I remember the third time, the time after that, basically, I asked the class again, like, do you remember we talked about last time? It's like, yeah, yeah. Brown people, it's okay to be brown. It's okay. It's not a bad thing. And I remember asking him directly, the boy I was like, is it okay to be brown? He's like, yes, it's okay. It's okay. And it was just like a really cool moment. I don't, I don't know that he truly felt or believed that, but it, to me, it seemed authentic. And I.

Euan (37:23)
Okay.

Patrick Smith (37:35)
I mean, it was really, it was a moving moment. Actually. I remember sharing that because it really meant so much to me. So like on the TikTok TOK and Instagram everything, because it was just such a special moment. And so, yeah, it was, it was nice to have that moment where he really learned something and not only him, but the whole class was able to learn something about me and about people who look like me. Um, and so moments like that, I really cherish. And so it doesn't.

Euan (38:01)
Mm -hmm.

Patrick Smith (38:04)
Matters so much to me that I face these kinds of comments from kids quite often because at the end of the day, the, the other side of it where they get to learn something and it helps them to be more prepared for life in the world. You know, they can go somewhere, run into a black person and not be shocked, not wonder why they're Brown. They'll already know. Um, I'm happy to be able to provide that, that, um, sort of education for them. Yeah.

And I would say the comments that I get on videos and stuff. Cause I think you had mentioned you were asking about that too, maybe. Um, yeah, those, I would say now I'm, I'm at the point where I just ignore them. I, like I said, I think people are, people are crazy. Let me move on. Forget this. But initially it was hard. It was really hard because I'd want to respond to every single one of their comments and like,

Euan (38:38)
Yeah.

Mm -hmm.

Patrick Smith (39:02)
not argue with them because I'm not one to get into arguments online, but I would try to like help them understand why I felt this way about this thing versus how they feel, which is, you know, the complete opposite and help. I try to help them get to my level of understanding in terms of like this culture, because they're coming from a culture where they don't have these sorts of, um,

you know, these same interactions. The U S is a country where there are a lot of different colors represented. And so in their minds, they're like, how could anybody think that? Like, how could this kid's parents not have explained this to him already? And it's like, it's just a different world over here. And so initially I was always trying to respond in comments to people. Um, and, uh, yeah, it wouldn't go so well most of the time.

But now I'm just like, whatever. If they feel that way, they feel that way. They don't have to watch my videos, they don't have to follow me. They can move on with their lives, that's fine. I'll move on with mine.

Euan (40:01)
Oh.

Mm hmm. It's I mean, so is all sorts of interesting questions. I think the main thing that, you know, a lot of people can take away from that is that, you know, as much as as intolerance and bigotry are learned, you know, tolerance and excitement are also learned. And, you know, for a lot of a lot of children, you're providing such like critical information and they've got a role model who they might not have otherwise, you know, had if it weren't for, you know, the kind of path that took you towards.

Patrick Smith (40:25)
Oh, no.

Yeah.

Euan (40:38)
teach in English. And I think that's something, you know, to be celebrated. And so when we talk about kind of the students and the role that they play in the TikToks and that kind of thing, I mean, these are incredibly wholesome kids, like there's no getting around the fact that like, they say and do adorable stuff and you document it. And at what point did you realize that the kids were kind of aware of your TikToks? And did any of them sort of say they wanted to be in them? Did you find the classes were a little bit different once you kind of reached a level of kind of virality, I suppose?

Patrick Smith (40:40)
Mm.

Hmm. Hmm. It was, let's see when I was still in Sendai. So I started doing Tik Tok right before I left Sendai to move to Tokyo. And, um, I, I remember the friend of mine who got me onto the app. She was telling like everybody, all of her students like, Oh, Mr. Patrick's he's on Tik Tok now. And they were like, what, what, what? So a lot of the students were coming in, like they were coming to my account and like following me and.

would discuss it amongst themselves and stuff. But they never really would bring it up with me. Sometimes I remember some of my own students would like, they would reference a video that I would have posted like the week before, just kind of off -handed. And like, it's like maybe a song or something. They start singing the song and then like look over at me and I'd be like, do they know? They can't know. Do they? But they wouldn't say it. And I wasn't about to ask them.

Euan (41:49)
Mm -hmm.

Hahaha.

Patrick Smith (42:01)
So it was kind of like that for the most part, those last couple of months until the very end. I think it was at the very end that I had maybe said something like, Oh, I am on tech talk. And they're like, we know like to my own classes. They're like, I know. And it's like the older ones, like the high school kids. Um, but that was sort of the end of that. Then I moved to Tokyo and I was mainly teaching kindergarten age kids and none of them knew about my, my tech talk stuff. Um,

Euan (42:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Patrick Smith (42:30)
But my, I also taught elementary age classes at the same time. Some of them, um, I don't think they, I don't think they found me on their own or like through the parents or anything. I think it was like, I remember, so I'm wearing a shirt that is, um, part of my like official merch line. And sometimes I would wear my merch to the school. Um, and I like have it under my, my work polo.

And, um, I remember once or twice I showed them the, the design, like the, the art on the shirt. And they'd be like, why do you have this? And I'd be like, well, I, I make videos online. They're like, are you a TikToker? And I'm like, um, yeah, I am actually. And then it became like a thing where they wanted to see my videos and they'd be like, we'd maybe have like five minutes at the end of class every once in a while. And they'd be like, can we please watch your TikToks, Mr. Patrick? And I'd be like, okay, fine. And I'd like show them.

A couple of like the really funny ones to them. And that's as far as it went with them. It was pretty, yeah, it was pretty, pretty much just like that. Then when I moved to my current school, it's interesting because it's an international school. So lots of like English speakers, like everything is taught in English. So the kids all can speak English. Their parents can, for the most part, speak English. And so I knew the chances of people knowing who I was at the school were

going to go up by a lot, working up this school. And sure enough, like my first, the interview, the day I went in for the interview, I had people like peeking around into the interview room, like different teachers were like peeking in cause they heard that I was there. Um, I met one of the teachers in the hallway. She's like, Oh, Mr. Patrick, I follow you on Tik TOK like blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Oh man, it's starting. And then.

Euan (44:01)
Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Patrick Smith (44:25)
once I started teaching, none of the students that I teach follow me, but they've been like, oh, Mr. Patrick, my mom saw you on TikTok. I watched all your videos yesterday. And I'd be like, oh, wow. Okay, that's good to know. Thankfully, my content's all very family friendly. Like I don't post anything that's like risque or like, you know, anything inappropriate. But it's still just a bit odd knowing that like the students that I teach and their parents.

Um, see my content. Um, a lot of my coworkers follow me. Um, like I follow them back and they, yeah, we follow each other. So that's pretty normal. But knowing that like any kind of like silly thing I post one day is going to be seen by most of my coworkers. So when I go in the next day, they're all going to be like, Oh, we saw you doing that dance or something. Um, as well as my students, that is a bit odd.

Euan (44:56)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Patrick Smith (45:22)
Um, but you know, it just is what it is. I'm like, whatever. I, again, I don't post anything that would get me fired. Um, and I, yeah, it's just, it's funny. My stuff is always just, it's supposed to be anyways. I don't know if it's that funny, but it's supposed to be comical. So as long as I'm bringing laughs to people, I'm fine. I'm fine doing what I do. And if kids see it and their parents see it and my coworkers see it. Oh, well, yeah, that's where I'm at with that. I think.

Euan (45:52)
Well, on that point actually there was, and I'm skipping ahead a wee bit, but there was a really good video that you did, quite a recent one actually, with the kids you were teaching were sort of, they kind of disputed how cute your hamster was, like a hamster that you had before, and I just, I just love that one because it's just like, why would you question that? But I mean, is that kind of typical of sort of…

What expectations did you have about teaching Japanese kids and how sort of blunt and kind of like… I don't know what word to use for that, but yeah, did it meet your sort of expectations of how these kids were going to be? Yeah.

Patrick Smith (46:25)
you

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

Well, see, it's interesting because everything shifted once I moved again to my current school, because there are so many different kids from different nationalities here. And so prior to that, when I was just teaching Japanese kids, they would be, I mean, they have no filter, but the level of English was much lower. So they couldn't always vocalize their thoughts. I would hear a lot of like, no, no.

during conversations with them just because they don't know how to say like, no, I don't think that it's actually this they would just say like no and then say whatever they might think a situation should be or something. It's hard to explain but because the level of English was much lower when I moved to my current school, it was just like a shock at just seeing how much like I get into arguments with my students all the time. I'm like…

didn't I just tell you not to do that? Like, no, but, but you said this. I'm like, but this means don't do this. Like, and then we go back and forth. I'm like, I didn't have these kinds of conversations at my last school because the kids couldn't argue with me, which was nice. But man, yeah, my class is quite sassy. Um, they're, they're hilarious. I really enjoy teaching them, but, um, yeah, they're, they, they came from my hamster. They were like, it.

Couldn't have been that cute. That's your opinion. Why would you say that to me?

Euan (47:58)
Yeah, that was it. That was it. Yeah, that's your opinion. Like…

Patrick Smith (48:01)
They're all about opinions. They're like, you say anything that they don't like and they're like, that's your opinion. But this is a fact.

They're hilarious. Oh my goodness. My co -teacher and I, we crack up about them. Just like, just the beef that they have with everything. They have beef with like this character with my hamster. Do you know the program Canva? A lot of teachers use it to like make documents. Anytime we show something on Canva, we're like, the kids are like, is that Canva? And we're like, yes. And they're like, oh, I hate Canva. Like, why? Why do you hate Canva? It did nothing to you.

Euan (48:28)
Yeah, yeah.

What?

Patrick Smith (48:40)
They're funny. They are some funny kids. Yeah, it's a lot of interesting conversations I had about this school. Like just the most unhinged stuff. But it's hilarious.

Euan (48:52)
So I had to ask, you know, to kind of put a bookend on the kind of the TikTok stuff, because, you that's kind of you've done a million interviews about that. So I don't want to, you know, kind of bore you to death with it, but.

I'm just sort of wondering what's the most kind of surreal experience you've ever had on TikTok or because of TikTok? Hamsters aside.

Patrick Smith (49:11)
Hmm, I think Maybe I would have to say it's any time that I run into people who recognize me and come and say hi that never gets old like it's always a shock to me that people people get so excited to see me and want to take pictures with me and and I always tell them like I'm always like I'm

I'm so happy that you enjoy my content because I feel like it's not that good. I feel like I just throw something together and put it up and you know, it is what it is. But they're always so complimentary and they're always so grateful and they always say like, no, it really means a lot to me. I relate to so much of what you said and I met some people who have even moved to Japan because of me. They said,

You know, I saw your videos a few years ago and they really inspired me to come to this country. Like you're the reason that I'm doing this right now. And that I would say is absolutely the most surreal thing. It's, it's so humbling and it's really, I mean, it gives me inspiration to keep doing what I'm doing. Has there been times when I've been like, what am I doing on this, this app? Like I don't belong here again, the imposter syndrome. Like I just got lucky.

during the pandemic and I'm here, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to be an influencer. My content creation is not that great. But there are always people who, yeah, again, they're so grateful for it. Not only in person, but also in comments and DMs, I guess, like, say thank you so much for saying what you said, sharing that experience.

I decided to enroll in this program because of you. I decided to go to this country because of the views of you and all these different things. It just blows me away. And so, yeah, they keep me going. Exactly, exactly. Those kinds of comments and those kinds of interactions that people have. They're definitely what I would say is the most surreal part of me being a TikToker, I guess.

Euan (51:23)
I have to kind of follow that on because I'm just sort of wondering, are those the kind of typical interactions you have of other teachers? And, you know, has anyone sort of told, obviously people told you, I've moved to this country because of you. Is there anything kind of in terms of like teaching technique that you've learned from other teachers getting in touch with you or have, you know, do you feel like you've had an influence on other teachers, not just from a sort of geographic point of view, but kind of a methodological one? Like, what are your kind of interactions with

Patrick Smith (51:24)
I'm sorry.

to start when it, I'm also gonna talk about teachers and you know, as I know, it's.

Euan (51:53)
teachers in general, is our way of summarizing it.

Patrick Smith (51:55)
I would say I get comments from teachers on videos saying like, oh, this is how I handle this situation or this thing. And it's always interesting to see what their strategies are. I follow a whole lot of teacher accounts, like teachers, Japanese people who teach Japanese to people, like foreigners, as well as just school teachers in the US. It's just so interesting to see how they go about things.

Um, I don't think I've met too many, uh, teachers in person. Um, I've met some, but we've never really exchanged strategies or talked about like different methods of teaching and how we handle this situation, that situation. Most of my, um, I would say learning, I guess, like developing skills that comes from observing, like my, my fellow teachers at my actual school.

Um, and as well as my, um, you know, professional development as an educator, I'm going to be working towards getting my master's degree soon. I got my teaching license this past year. Um, my school runs a lot of workshops where we can learn different things and whatnot. And like I said, the comments that I see on videos and the other like education accounts, I follow that share content.

Euan (53:07)
Okay.

Patrick Smith (53:24)
and strategies and stuff, those are always really insightful for me to answer that question. I hope that's kind of an answer to it. Does that work?

Euan (53:32)
It's an ideal answer to the question. Yeah, I'm not grading you Patrick. That's a key thing to remember. So obviously, you've made your mark in Japan and will continue to make your mark in Japan. What you're doing is fantastic. People are responding to it. Do you see yourself teaching in Japan kind of long term now? Because if I'm correct, you're in your mid -30s. I mean, do you feel like you've found a place where you feel at home?

Patrick Smith (53:33)
Okay.

Euan (53:57)
and you know obviously kind of the teaching that you're doing is you're getting so much out of it and you're getting career like development out of it. I mean do you see is would you say that this is kind of you in sort of where you're meant to be in the long term?

Patrick Smith (54:08)
Hmm. Yeah, I've gone back and forth with this for a number of years now. Sometimes I'm like, okay, this is definitely where I'm going to be probably long -term. Other times I'm like, like, I think just a few years ago I was thinking like, I'm definitely not staying here. I'm moving back. Um,

Euan (54:26)
Right?

Patrick Smith (54:27)
But I think at this point, like right now, yeah, I'm feeling like it will be probably a long -term thing. Um, I don't have any desire to move back to the U S in its current state. Um, but also I really enjoy being here. I'm, I'm able to take Japanese classes against my Japanese is finally starting to improve a lot more.

than it was this past year or two. And so I think, yeah, I feel really comfortable here. It's really, it's a convenient country to live in. It's a very safe country. It's a very, the healthcare system's great. Like, yeah, the people are kind. I have, I do have qualms. Like everybody has qualms with any country they live in, but yeah, for the foreseeable future, I'll be here.

Japan.

Euan (55:24)
I love that because we do speak to all sorts of teachers who have taught, you name it, they've taught there and often, you know, they'll say like, oh, well, you know, next year, I'm thinking of going to such and such place. And it's like, yeah, that's great. And there's nothing wrong with that. But also, it's really cool to hear a teacher who's just like, I'm where I'm meant to be. And that's that's a really valuable thing, I think. And so, you know, to segue it in the most natural way I can think of, what advice would you give to teachers who

Patrick Smith (55:41)
Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Euan (55:51)
who want to experience life and teaching work in Japan and to kind of to integrate themselves and really, you know, put as much themselves into it as you have. What advice would you give?

Patrick Smith (56:05)
Hmm, I would say

If you are interested in teaching in Japan, teaching and living in Japan, um,

Prepare for things to be very different than what you're used to. Japanese people are very reserved. It's not very easy to make close friends here in Japan. That was probably the biggest culture shock for me when I moved here. Especially coming from China where it was like people were very outgoing and eager to practice their English with me. You don't get that here. Like people…

There are a lot of people who can speak English, but they're not going to speak English with you because they don't know you. And so, yeah, I would say like prepare for things to be different, prepare to have to put a lot of effort into maintaining friendships with people because you meet people and you become friends, but you have to really, you have to actively maintain that friendship. Otherwise.

Like there's so many people I've met in my first couple of years that I have not spoken to in years. I don't even remember half their names because we just, we, neither of us really put effort into that. Um, that's one thing. Also, I would say like, try to learn Japanese as much as you can before moving here. If it's possible, it's not possible for everybody, but if you can try to, I mean, even do like free lessons on Duolingo or something, you know, try to.

Euan (57:27)
Yeah.

Patrick Smith (57:34)
boost your skills as much as possible because, um, once you're working, it's not easy to find time to take classes or anything like that. So, um, some people make it work, but for some people it's not the easiest. So yeah, try to get some, like a decent understanding of the language down beforehand. Um, and, and really try to immerse yourself in the culture.

As much as possible here, once you are here, because that's one way that you're really going to boost your skills in the language by being around people, you know, going to, there are always the touristy places you can go to, but finding like local, you know, hole in the wall places in your area that you're living in, like that's a great way. Meet the locals, you know, try to have conversations with them. Those are really, really key ways to help.

Euan (58:27)
Mm -hmm.

Patrick Smith (58:31)
not only boost language skills, but also establish some deep like relationships with people. And then sort of a side to that, I would say like establish a community for yourself. It is important to meet Japanese people, but if you have people who are from your own culture, who have the same background as you, it's really important to…

have that for yourself because that's what you fall back on when you have those moments where you're overwhelmed by everything in this new country where you're homesick, you know, et cetera. Um, they're kind of the backbone for you in those moments. So I would say, you know, find a community, um, and try onsen, which are the public baths. A lot of foreigners are too intimidated to try them, but they're, they're the best. I love onsen so much.

So don't be too afraid to try them. If you have tattoos, it's a little more difficult, but there are options. So do some research. You can find them, but don't avoid them because of the idea of being naked around people. It's a lot to take in as a foreigner, but once you get used to it, it's great. It's so nice. So relaxing.

Euan (59:51)
Well, yeah, I mean, I can't think of a better place than there to kind of finish this off. And believe me, I wish we had another few hours because there's so much I want to ask you, maybe one day. But you did a very good natural plug for your merch earlier. So don't think I wasn't going to pick up on that. So where can people find you? Where can people find your online presence if they haven't already?

Patrick Smith (1:00:14)
Um, you can find me on tick -tock and Instagram and I technically YouTube. I don't really make YouTube videos anymore, but I'm, I'm there. I'm also on, I guess X or it used to be Twitter. Um, I'm on threads also. It's all under the paper pat, the paper pad. I believe Instagram and maybe threads is the only one where there's a period in between each of the words, the dot paper.

Everything else is just the paper pad.

Euan (1:00:47)
Well, and do you have any merch available just now or?

Patrick Smith (1:00:50)
Oh, yes. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think on Instagram you can find there's a highlight story, um, where you can get the link to the merge, but it's under, I think it's, it's under a bonfire, the website bonfire. They, they, um, it's a printing service and, um, I don't know if the URL is maybe bonfire slash the paper pat or yeah, it must be, I think it's the paper pat there too. Um,

If you just search the paper, Pat merch, you'll probably find it, but it's also on Instagram under one of my highlighted stories. So, yeah, this is my favorite one right here.

Euan (1:01:26)
Kill, kill.

Brilliant. You've got a… Nice, nice. Yeah, no, I like that a lot. Yeah, you've got to let me be an aggressive marketer on your behalf, you know? It's part of the deal. I should have worn the Teflorg hoodie, but I have it today for whatever reason. But anyway, Patrick, it's been so good talking to you, mate. And yeah, all the best in all your endeavors in Japan and beyond.

Patrick Smith (1:01:40)
I appreciate that.

Thank you so much, best to you as well. I appreciate it.