What makes a good TEFL teacher?

Euan (00:03)
Welcome back to I Taught English Abroad. And as is always the case when I get to speak to Thomas Kerr, I'm delighted. I'm very, happy. And I'm in a great mood today. Thomas has joined us before in the podcast, talk about his life and career. And I'm delighted to bring him back on to talk about what makes a good TEFL teacher. And with his expertise and experience in the industry, I really couldn't ask for a better guest. And now I've sufficiently buttered you up, Thomas. How are you today? How's Spain?

Thomas (00:34)
Yeah, fine. Good considering it's a Monday, yeah, fine. sun's starting to shine, nice day. Everything's cool, great start to the week. I'm happy.

Euan (00:45)
Excellent. how are… We talked a little bit about your pets last time. And just for anyone who listened to your last episode, just a quick update on how they're all doing.

Thomas (00:57)
Six cats, no six cats, six dogs, two cats and a new tortoise, we've adopted a tortoise who's in hibernation. But they're all fine and doing really well. Just trying to get them not to bark. So they're all here, calm.

Euan (01:08)
Excellent, I love to hear that. That's a trick, isn't it? It doesn't matter how many you've got. I mean, we've just got the one cat and whenever he's really quiet most of the time until you press record or you're in a meeting, and all of a sudden, you know, the one-man choir starts. So for anyone who shamefully hasn't listened to your previous episode, what was your route into English teaching? If you can sort of kind of briefly synopsize that for us, how did you get into TEFL?

Thomas (01:45)
I'm kind of just chance really I think like a lot of people I mean I lived in London for years kind of lost my job there and thought you know what next and just turned up in Spain I thought I'll come here for a holiday and I just kind of stayed and really enjoyed it and I stayed because I started teaching English because what happened was I was kind of looking for work couldn't find anything and when people heard me speak in English they just approached me and said, hey, are you an English teacher? Do you do private classes? People just came up to me in bars and stuff. And so, not that I go to lot of bars, but know, a couple of times. they were, and you know, friends, people get introduced to people, and then suddenly I had two, three, four private classes, and that just got into it naturally.

Euan (02:39)
And later on you would do the qualifications that you need. You've become an experienced TEFL teacher. You've got more qualifications than you can shake a stick at. You also helped to shape the courses that we teach at The TEFL Org. You've been involved with the company for a long time now. But what was your moment of realisation early on when you were taking those ad hoc, if you like, those classes?

Was there a moment when you thought, okay, I can do this actually; this is something that I could probably do long term?

Thomas (03:13)
I kind of knew straight away. I went into the… It just went bang. I just… Well, I was really nervous going to the first one because I had not a clue. There was no kind of internet then. So you couldn't watch a class or know what was happening. And I had no idea what to expect. So I just went in with an open mind, with nothing prepared. And I just thought, just don't know what to do.

And when Erin, the girl, was really lovely and she started chatting and told me what she wanted to do and, you know, and because she told me what she wanted to do and what she wanted to learn, you know, and I listened to her and kind of corrected her a little bit on her English because that's what she wanted. And even though I didn't know any of the grammar, but I corrected her in my way. And that was it. And I left and I just loved it. And I just thought, am I getting paid for this? This is like great. This is really fun.

And I just got the bug. And the more I did, the more I realised I needed to learn and know to help my students and just continue to love it. I just loved it. And it just has never been like work. It's always been something that I've really enjoyed doing.

Euan (04:26)
Was there anything from previous jobs or any experiences that you had, whether it was something in terms of, you know, looking after people or any kind of experience that you had that you consciously brought into teaching where you thought, okay, maybe I could do this because I've done this, or was it straight into kind of the deep end of like, there's nothing from my life beforehand that I can bring into teaching, but I know I could be good at this. Like, was there anything that you kind of brought into that sort of first lesson with you?

Thomas (04:56)
Definitely, excuse me, with the first lesson, I worked in a bank, I've done lots of different jobs before I did TEFL I in banking, worked in import-export, and I also worked in bars and restaurants. And I'm going to say that working in bars and restaurants really helped because that contact with the customer and having a bit fun with them, bit of tongue in cheek sometimes, and you know, that helped me a lot to create a rapport with the students and make classes fun and upbeat for them. I think that helped me with the first couple of classes. I would go in there and smile, "How are you?" and just be friendly and happy with them, and that was a big help for me.

Euan (05:41)
Definitely, and just to extend on that a little bit, when we talk more about generalities, in your view, what kind of emotional skills should a person develop before they get into the teaching sphere? What do you think is essential in terms of emotional intelligence to be not just a TfL teacher, but any kind of teacher?

Thomas (06:06)
Emotional intelligence, I think you have to be, I think you have to empathetic and try and understand your students a little bit about how people work, how people think. I remember one time I had a class of six students, and there was this lady, it was here in Madrid, and there was this lady, and she just talked Spanish all the time. She wouldn't stop talking, but just about anything. And she was kind of, and I didn't know what to do and I kept saying, you know, how can we speak in English? But she kept doing it.

And she was really lovely, lovely lady, but I thought, what am going to do here? And I had a chat, you know, afterwards, you know, we all went for coffee one day and she, and I kind of asked her to stay, kind of have a word with her, but in really nice way so she didn't feel like, point picked out or anything. And we just chatted and she was lovely. And what it was was, and I said, you know, I kind of mentioned this to her and she was so sorry. And she said it's because her boss was in the same group and she was scared to speak in English because he would judge her level. so I didn't realise it was happening. So a lot of empathy there, you know, would help. And so what I did after that was I kind of put them into groups and separated her from her boss a little bit, got them speaking all together in their groups. So she felt she was in a safe zone and it improved tenfold and she was so delighted.

So that was great. You know, and you're getting empathy for, you know, Try to understand how people are feeling in class. Keep your radar open about how people are feeling in class if they're enjoying it. Watch their body language and stuff and how they feel. I think focusing on what they like, what they enjoy, what they need, and kind of preparing your classes around them and not, I'm the teacher, you know, it has to be like this. So I think that's really important as well.

Euan (08:07)
And just to kind of actually touch on that a little bit, sorry, just went to your squeak. This isn't in the set questions, the way, so it's just something I've thought of, so I'm not trying to shock you with it. As someone who'd moved to the sort of greater kind of Madrid area and as something, I mean, I guess we call them expats, was cultural awareness part of this sort of emotional intelligence kind of toolkit that you needed to kind of develop because generally speaking, I'm guessing you were teaching people English who were from the area.

So did you need to learn a lot about the local area and a lot about how people were and about sort of the kind of cultural touchstones of the greater sort of Madrid district and that kind of stuff? Was that important in terms of understanding your students and that kind of… But how important was that in terms of teaching?

Thomas (09:07)
I mean, yeah, I was actually going to mention cultural differences and stuff and it's really important. I mean, obviously, there is cultural importance here in Madrid or in Spain compared to the UK. I mean, can you imagine the cultural differences in other countries that are further away? The importance is really key. And I mean, there were cultural differences here. Just the way people speak to each other, the body language, the way you do things.

And I don't know, when I first started teaching here, because people weren't responding in the way I would expect someone from the UK to respond, I wouldn't understand what was happening. There was something not right. And as I got to, but I was really quite lucky because a lot of my friends were Spanish, so I quickly, I involved myself around Spanish people, Spanish friends.

And so I kind of learned quite quickly, and that was a big help. Just the rapport you get with each other and the way you say and do things, politeness and behaviour ways are different. And I remember sometimes thinking, they're a bit rude, but it's not. It's just a different way of doing things. People are so different. And so when I learned all that, it was great, and it made things so much easier, and it connected me to people a lot more.

So it's really important.

Euan (10:34)
Yeah, that's a really insightful answer. Thank you, Thomas. And so just because I think your route into teaching was a little unorthodox compared to a lot of the guests that we have on here. you mentioned a challenge that you had before for one of your groups in terms of one of the students was in the same group as their boss, which is a really interesting challenge.

Was that the first challenge, the first real substantial challenge that you came up against as a TEFL teacher? Or was there anything else that kind of came up in the first maybe 10, 15 lessons? And if so, how did you kind of overcome it? Because, I mean, in a real sense, you were kind of learning as you go.

Thomas (11:13.868)
I mean, there were lots of challenges; every day, there was a new challenge. Just trying to remember them all now, I mean, grammar was a challenge, phonology was a challenge, all of it. And I mean I remember, the cultural thing was a challenge as well. And I remember I had this student very early on, she was a private student, someone that kind of, a friend of a friend that approached me. And her grammar was really good and she knew a lot more grammar than I did.

I didn't know about grammar at that time. But in saying that, one of the things that we, even though we don't know grammar, we don't know, we haven't learned the grammar per se. As a mother tongue native, a "native speaker", we know what's right and what's wrong. We just know, but we don't know why and we don't know the names of it, the terms. So I had that and she really knew all the terms.

And I was clear to her at the start, and I said, look, you know, I explained this to her, and she said, that's fine, you know, we'll work together. And it was great because I was honest with her and we helped each other and we learned from each other. And it kind of forced me into, you know, I'd say, right, next day, what grammar do you want to have a look at and get more in-depth? And she'd let me know. And I'd go back and study it and plan my classes. And that's how I learned a lot of the grammar with her.

And it was great. you know, but I think teaching is like that anyway, no matter what it is. I mean, you learn from your students as well. It's not one way. You learn from each other. So it's a constant learning process. And that was great. Same with phonology. I mean, I didn't even know what it was. I was like, what's that? I thought, and you know, went away, got a book about it, read about it, studied it. And I learned a lot about phonology as well. And I think that's how you learn.

Because I didn't do it, I hadn't done a TEFL course at that time you see. So I just…

Euan (13:13.338)
For the sake of argument, if anyone's listening and they don't know about phonology how would you describe it to them?

Thomas (13:20.174)
Phonology. Yeah, I mean phonology is… Yeah, but then someone's going to say, well, that's not correct. There are all these kinds of ways to describe it. Anyway, here we go. It's kind of the sounds of English, isn't it? It's all the sounds of English and how, you know, how they sound or any language, how they sound and how the sounds change when they come together. it's that set of sounds of English and it helps with accents and stuff like that.

Euan (13:48)
That answer works for me. The answer works for me. That's it.

Thomas (13:50)
It's actually a lot more deeper than that…

Euan (13:55)
I mean, people will understand now. Let's say hypothetically, I wasn't quite sure what it meant and needed you to tell me. Let's say that hypothetically, you know, not for the sake of argument.

Thomas (14:05)
Well, for example, the Scottish, I mean, you know, phonetics, Scottish, we have a phoneme and it's the h sound. And it actually goes into two brackets: it's an X, and it's loch, Loch Ness. English people don't have that sound, so we have an extra sound in phonology. So there you go.

Euan (14:26)
Is it a sort of "path" thing as well? kind of…

Thomas (14:31)
Yeah, there's other stuff. We could really go into this. mean, it's just a little example. And that's a phoneme. That's one of the… One sound in English. Scottish English.

Euan (14:43)
Well, exactly. Well, don't say you never learn anything on this podcast. We're just going to take a quick break and I'll be right back with Thomas Kerr.

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Euan (15:01)
And we're back with Thomas Kerr. Now, Thomas, you as a person and a teacher, you're someone with a very distinct style. I've known that from the second that I met you. You're not like the others, and it's a wonderful thing. It's why you keep getting invited back to do podcasts with me. But I want to ask you about how you, because you're, as we covered, you're, you're route into teaching and how you became a teacher and the kind of, you know, teacher trainer that you are now, isn't necessarily the most linear, the most traditional kind of progression. And it's an interesting story.

And again, if anyone's not, if anyone's listened to this podcast and you haven't listened to Thomas's initial podcast, I would recommend that you go back and listen to it. But how important would you say it is to develop your own teaching style? And how did you sort of come to yours? Would you say you have a defined kind of style?

Thomas (15:45)
I don't really know, I people say I have but I don't feel as though I have. So I don't really know. I think what happens is you, I do remember when I first started out and I didn't really know like I said before, I didn't know what to do or what to expect and I, you know, watched a lot of other teachers, you know, in the school, when I got a job in a school I started watching other teachers and stuff and I just developed my own personality. I think my own personality came out,

Once I felt a bit confident, my own personality started to come out in the classes, and I felt that things were working for me with who I am and for the students. Another important part is that it's not just about the teacher's style; it's about your students as well. I like to find out. You can find out quite quickly, actually. I'm quite intuitive, so I can find out quite quickly what makes my students tick, what makes them motivated, what makes them, you know…

Things like that are important to help you plan classes that are motivating and fun and that help people want to learn. So I kind of mix that with my way of doing things, and it seems to work. I mean, for me, I want to motivate my students, make them feel happy, and make them feel that they want to come to class, so I keep my own mood out of it.

My own mood, doesn't matter, I mean, it's like being in a theatre. You know, the show must go on and you go in there and you smile and you say, hi everybody, and that's the way I do it. I've seen a teacher having a hard day and go in there, you know, when I've observed, and the students can feel it and they don't enjoy the class and they don't really want to be there. And that's a shame because it's a waste of opportunity.

So I think as a teacher, have to leave your worries outside the door and go in there and help your students with their English and try to have some fun while you do it. And I'll tell you what happens, it's like some kind of therapy. You go in there and you've got maybe a problem before you go in and after 10 minutes, I've forgotten why I was worried before. Just can't remember why was worried. So I'm just gonna go away. It's like going to the gym for an hour. Just forget.

Euan (17:56)
Yeah, that's amazing actually. I need to pick up on that because that's really interesting. This maybe sounds a wee bit pretentious, but it sounds a little kind of like method acting or something. It's something that switches in your head. mean, how do you kind of, maybe there isn't like some kind of lofty process to this and it just is something that happens. And I'm sure you're about to tell me, but how do you get into that mindset where you are able to kind of leave the world?

outside the classroom, whether it's virtual or in person, and just say like, right, it doesn't matter what mood I'm in; I'm going to teach the way I always teach. Is there like a process?

Thomas (18:31)
No, I just, I open the classroom door and it just starts. Just something to go, hi everybody. And that's it. And it's just the magic start. It just happens. I don't go away and think, right, you know, try and set my head. It's just, you know, for me, I just open the classroom door and see all the faces sitting there and the magic starts. And they've, you know.

That's it. And I just love it. And they're looking at me and they're like, right, what now? And they actually, one of the things I like to do is I surprise them every time I walk in the door, there's a surprise. They don't know what to expect. So that's probably why they're looking at me. But I think they're looking at all teachers anyway to see what their mood is. So I walk in and I mean, I'll do kind of daft things like I remember this class I went in and and I just went in with six students and I had six… I mean, I don't know if I said this before in the previous podcast, I don't think I did, but I remember this, I walked in with six balloons, floating balloons, and there were six students. And I walked in the door and they were, and I had like, like kind of music playing and they were like, what's he doing now? And I was just like, how are you all right? And I just pretended I have the balloons. I was chatting to them and they were looking at these balloons. They were teenagers and they were like, what are you doing with the balloons? And I've got their attention. I've got their attention.

You know, the mobile phones have gone. They're in the bags, they've got attention. And I was like, well, in a minute, we'll talk about the balloons, and I kind of did the homework where some of the balloons were there very quickly. And then I said, right, I'll let the balloons go. said, you've got to jump and catch the balloons now. And you know, and burst it and see what's inside it. And they were kind of jumping about. It's all right to jump about in class. And they were having a lot of fun. And they got a balloon each, and they burst it. And inside were instructions on what they had to do next for the start of the next part of the lesson.

And the stuff like that just creates that rapport, fun, want to learn and you know, what's it going to do next day? Rather than go in there and say, open your books at page 23, today we're going to do the second conditional. I mean, it's really boring. I think so.

Euan (20:44)
Well, I mean that leads me perfectly on to the next question because I was going to ask who were the sort of major influences on your teaching style. But it sounds to me, and this is maybe just a guess, I mean maybe there are people that you observed and you kind of nodded to that earlier, but the sort of kind of West of Scotland education, maybe the Scottish education in general, you could probably describe as quite dour, certainly not asked. I mean, maybe until…

I don't know what it's like now. It's maybe different now, but certainly, up until 2009, a lot of it was quite dour. I just, certainly there weren't many balloons in my experience of Scottish education. I can't speak to yours, but I would assume it's the same. Were you kind of influenced more by what was missing from your own education as opposed to what you saw in your own school days, or were there people who influenced you when you took up teaching, or was it a mixture of both? Maybe I'm making assumptions here, but I mean, there's a kind of a melting pot of different things.

Thomas (21:42)
I think it was two things that you just said. I think it was, I mean, there were people who influenced me and, at the same time, looking around what was happening in education. And I remember students, and I just remember in the beginning when I started teaching, when I started teaching in a school, and students, you know, a lot of students didn't want to be there. And they were like, you know, I have to come here because, you know, my parents sent me up because I need English for work. And I'm thinking, why do these…

This is not right. People need to… Learning is wonderful. Learning is amazing. And that's when I realized, you know, just talking to them about how they're learning languages in their schools or how they learn languages in places before was really boring. And I just thought that's not motivating at all. And I don't think education needs to be like that. And I think that was an influence on how, you know, that made me (think about) how to make my lessons more fun, how to make people want to come to lessons and how to motivate them to learn more. And I think that was important for me. At the same time, I mean, I remember this guy, I he fascinated me. I used to work in this prestigious school in Madrid, I can't say the name, and I was there and there was this guy and he was really quiet. He was about 40.

Julian, his name was, anyway, he's not in now. And I remember he was so quiet and he had all these really naughty group of teenagers and they were really wild, these teenagers, and no teacher could deal, cope with them. And he was the quietest voice and he had them all mesmerised and he was really quiet. And it was just fascinating how he did it. And he told me his secret once - and what he did was he used to play the guitar every now and again and sing with them in class. So they'd just break into song and sing songs and that helped to keep them calm. So, whereas I've got the balloons that are all jumping around, he was the other side of it, and he would take his guitar in, and he would say, you know, can we sing? And they said, well, let's do this first, this serious work, and then we'll do some singing. And that's how he did it. And it was just amazing. And that influenced me as well.

Euan (23:56)
Yeah, and I think you've got to have a certain kind of… I don't know if authority is the right word or charisma is the right word, but to be able to bring a guitar in and sing with a group of teenagers, you need to have a… Because you could get torn to shreds, let's be honest. That could go seriously south unless you have a certain kind of something about you. So, I mean, that's seriously impressive.

Thomas (24:18)
But I think it's important that you sing songs that they like and that they know and that's it now. you don't sing an old fashioned song that they feel silly with. So it has to be something that they like.

Euan (24:31)
Yeah, of course.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So here's kind of… here's an important question because I can join on the last kind of what we've talked about for last 5 to 10 minutes or so. Are you and have you been the kind of teacher that you thought you would be when you kind of started out? Did you have an idea of the kind of teacher that you would be, and have you stuck to that idea, or have you surprised yourself in a way that either you've developed certain things or you maybe thought you were going to be?

(Did you think) you're going to be one thing and (have become) maybe more the other? For example, you've maybe leaned more into kind of the sort of, I don't know, the kind of the fun lessons and the interactive lessons. Have you maybe done more of that kind of stuff when you thought you would end up doing or have you surprised yourself? You know, that kind of thing.

Thomas (25:12)
I think, yeah because I always thought before I kind of got serious about teaching, there you go, that education was kind of the serious thing looking at books. And it was the teacher transferring, or books transferring their knowledge onto you in a straightforward, boring way. That's always what I thought education was. And that's the way I was kind of taught when I was at school. And when I started actually teaching myself and looking around and feeling how students were and looking at other teachers and just, you know, as I say, I'm quite intuitive. And then I realised that this is not the way, this is not working, it's not going to happen like this. And that's when I realised that, you know, I had to change things. And that's how I kind of started experimenting at first.

I mean, sometimes it was nerve-racking. I remember I had this from a very, very serious, very conservative kind of a US, British, Anglo-American, what do you call it, auditing company. It was business people, and they wanted me to teach them business English. I just thought, and when I looked in the window, they were all sitting there in the classroom wearing their suits and things really serious and I felt "…ooh. And you could tell they didn't really want to be there, it was just because they had to, for work and stuff. And I thought I'm gonna try something. This is a little bit dangerous, but I did this, and it really worked. And I thought, right, and I went in and I moved the chairs around and we played this game with musical chairs. And all the teachers were saying, can we watch in the window? And I was like, well yeah, but make sure they don't see.

And I was like, you know, we've got to try and break the ice with these guys, you know? So, you know, so I went in there and I did this game with musical chairs with music. And at first they were like, and they kind of got up and then slowly they started taking their jackets off and stuff. And they really enjoyed it in the end after, but I had to keep them motivated and it set the pace and it was like, that's it. You know, and they were coming and they were smiling and they were a lot more, and they were a lot more open to learn, a lot more open to do different things and it was really great and they really loved the course. It made it more interesting for them as well. We didn't do music videos every day but we did something fun every day and I think that's, you know, also get, that kind of stuff also gives people memory hooks as well to remember what they were doing that day and maybe remember the new language that they were learning that day so it all helps them to remember as well and improve their English.

Euan (27:52)
So Thomas, that was a really insightful look at how you've developed as a teacher and how you've developed your methodologies and techniques. After this quick break, we're going to take a look at what other teachers can learn from you, your experience of teacher training, and we'll have some great advice for prospective teachers.

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Euan (28:45)
Thomas, you've just told us so many great and fun stories about teaching, so I feel bad. I feel as if this next question is trying to sort of, I don't know, drag down the atmosphere a little bit. But, you know, in the interest of being real, teaching can be really stressful. There's no getting around that fact. It's one of the more stressful occupations.

I'm just asking you for your perspective on this. How do you kind of keep things on an even keel, if you like? What advice would you give to teachers who maybe struggle with stress or they're certainly in the early period of their career, and they're finding things are getting on top of them a little bit? What advice would you give?

Thomas (29:18)
There's lots of advice. One piece of advice is I know lot of younger teachers who start teaching and maybe their students are older than them and they feel kind of bit weird about teaching someone older and they're like, you know, they know more about me and I say to them, no they don't. You know more about them in the language. It's your lesson, you're the teacher. Because they feel a bit kind of insecure because someone's older.

And that's my advice: remember, you know more than your students, and they want to learn from you. You can learn from them too, but they want to learn from you. So don't worry about going in there knowing that you, remember that you are the teacher. So be confident. Also, people get nervous, especially the first lesson. mean the first lesson. I mean people are very nervous. Take deep breaths, be calm. Keep your mind open to what's going to happen when you go in there. Have, really prepare your lesson plan, over prepare, have lots of activities, extra activities, because when you go in there and it's an hour lesson and someone is, the class goes really quickly, you eat up all the materials and you've got half an hour left and you've got nothing left to do and you panic and that half an hour takes forever to pass.

So have lots of activities until you are a really confident teacher and you can magic things out of a magic hat because you can, once you get confident. But so always have extra stuff in your bag for that, just in case. And very important is when you leave a lesson, first of all, think about what went well, what didn't go so good, how you could improve it, take notes so you're constantly learning and don't forget to pat yourself on the back and praise yourself for the things that went well in class because you have to do that as well.

Euan (31:16)
It's a job, for the vast majority of people I think. It's also something of a vocation. You really have to care a lot. You give a lot of yourself as a person. And so you're dealing with a lot of people on an interpersonal basis. And so I think for a lot of people that means not necessarily having the most healthy work-life balance.

How do you maintain a healthy work-life balance? I need to be careful how I word this because I don't mean switch off and not care about your students anymore, but how do you maintain when work's over, you're able to devote time to yourself and be able to go, this is my time now, how are you able to do that?

Thomas (31:53)
Teaching is exhausting, and you're right. When you go in there and you teach, and it's not just out of the book; you're trying to motivate and everything, it's really exhausting. And when I leave a class, I'm mentally exhausted. And so it's important to do other things, for example. I make sure I keep time for exercising every day.

I make time for exercise every day; that's important. Go to the gym or go running or something, even if it's only half an hour. In the morning, when I have breakfast before class and before work starts, I take time for myself. I have my shower, I get ready, and I am calm. I read or do something calm to start my day. And during the middle of the day, maybe I'll do some sport.

And at the end of the day, you know, take my dogs out for a walk. So, I get myself into the countryside and forget about everything. those are the things. And also regular eating habits. What happens is, so you're not forgetting about yourself, if you forget about yourself, you're not going to help your students because, you know, the flow has to keep going. And it's also important to have a regular eating schedule and eat well.

What happens is I've seen a lot of teachers maybe miss lunch because they're running around, and that is not good because that just projects some kind of negative energy, and that goes to your students, and it's not good for anyone. So I think: keep yourself healthy, do some exercise every day, do something that makes you feel good like reading or going walks with your dogs and make sure you have a regular eating habit and try to eat as healthy as you can.

I went through a period, Coca-Cola… a Coke and a Mars bar for lunch. Because it was a period I was going through a busy time - and it didn't work. It wasn't very long, I did it for about a month and I thought no this isn't working and I'm quite a healthy person anyway so it wasn't working for me so I wouldn't advise that. So those are my pieces of advice about that.

Euan (34:02)
Excellent. So you train teachers now. You're a fundamental part of what we do here at the TEFL org. Just quickly, actually, before we go onto this next phase of questions, how did you get into the other side of TEFL? How did you get into training teachers?

Thomas (34:19)
Well, when I was teaching, I realised when I started teaching, I really wanted to do, I needed to learn more of a way to continue this. So I did a TEFL course. And for me, that was life-changing. I mean, and it's funny because when I did my TEFL course, I went back to London to do the TEFL course for a month and I stayed at a friend's house and I came back. And it was great because I had already been teaching before.

And I kind of thought I knew a lot, I knew there was a lot I didn't know. But I needed to know what was what. And the TEFL course showed me, you know, I could see what I was doing right and what I wasn't doing right. And I learned so much as well. And that was really good for me. It was kind of revolutionary for me. As I started teaching TEFL after a couple of years, I was very inquisitive, and I always wanted to know more. And, know, what's the next stage? What's the next stage?

And I wanted to know what the next stage was. And then someone said, well, you know, you can do like a diploma and you know, that's a kind of teacher training thing. And I thought, yeah, I'll do that. So I did that. And that was for me, that was very challenging, really hard work. And I did that. And that kind of gives you a qualification that opens doors for you to be a director of studies in, you know, our leader team of tutors in skills. So I started doing that. And then of course, then the next stage after that, you know, what's after that? What's after that?

you know, there's a master's in education. And then after that, a diploma in linguistics. After that, a master's education in leadership management. As I started to deal with groups of other tutors, so I did the leadership management. So as you develop, I kind of tampered my studies to my development, all kind of went hand in hand. And that's kind of how where I got to where I am now.

Euan (36:06)
Excellent. Just, I thought it was important to preface that before we go into the next questions. Just so you know, when I ask you this, people understand like, well, yeah, of course he knows what he's talking about. And again, just a little kind of a disclaimer there that you should listen to Thomas's previous podcast. But yeah, very well, very well told. You're a good storyteller, Thomas. But so when you're, when you're training teachers, then what early signs from an aspiring teacher make you think, yeah, this person has what it takes?

Thomas (36:35)
Yeah, I mean when somebody, when they're really open to feedback, any teacher, even when you've been teaching for years like me, always need to be open to feedback because we're always learning. It's non-stop. So when someone's really open to feedback, wants to learn, is inquisitive, and wants to know new ways and different ways of doing things. Someone who wants to develop themselves is open to feedback and help; that's when you can tell someone's going to be a good teacher. You the bit about rapport in things, I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, you get people who you think, wow, people have got natural rapport. that, know, when I say rapport, I mean, natural motivation and fun.

They're great as well, but they also have to be open to; it's not enough; you also have to be open to feedback and to develop as a good teacher. So those are kind of the traits that you can see at the start that you think, wow, this person's going to be a really good teacher. In saying that, I've been surprised. I've seen people who were maybe at the beginning not open to feedback because I've realized because they were nervous or worried. But once I helped them with that, they got better and they become great teachers. So, you never know.

Euan (37:56)
Right, yeah that's quite true. On that note, do you think there are teaching skills that can be… obviously, I mean, so many teaching skills can be taught, but do you think there are some that are just kind of natural or do you think everything can be learned?

Thomas (38:08)
I know people who are very shy, and they actually come out of their shell with teaching. So they've learned to do that, and they've come out of the shell because they've had to survive in a classroom of teenagers, and they've been like, wow, you know. So I think you can learn a lot of things.

As long as you're, you can learn most things, as long as you're open to change and you're open to feedback and you don't mind experimenting and trying new things, but that's what teaching is anyway. So I think people can learn anything and develop. I really think that. I mean, I've seen people who have been, you know, you started teaching and people have said, they're really shy and they're really in the shell. You know, they're not going to be teachers and they've turned out to be amazing teachers. So I think you can learn everything. I think so in teaching. think. I mean, a lot of people are going to say, no, no, no, but that's me, that's my personal experience. So what I'm trying to say to you guys out there is anyone can do this. You can all do it. That's what I'm trying to say.

Euan (39:12)
Yeah, I like that. In the spirit of being positive, I think I originally wrote this next question in quite a negative way and so I'm just going to try and put a positive spin on it. What do you think everyone should know before they start a TEFL course?

Thomas (39:27)
When you do a TEFL course with us, you have all the support you need. Do not worry. Don't panic. Don't worry. Don't think, I don't know all these things. I don't know all these things. That is so common. And thinking that you can't do it because you can. Everybody can. And we are all here to help you and do not be afraid to get things wrong. Don't be afraid to think you've messed things up. You haven't. It's all a learning experience and we all know that here at The TEFL Org and contact your tutor, contact me at support. By the way, when you write to support, the one that can, I'll be there, you know, for you. So we'll do everything, just shout for help, tell us how you feel, and we'll do everything we can to take you through your TIFA course and help you to pass. That's what we're here for. So you're not on your own, you're not isolated, and don't think that asking for questions is showing any kind of weakness or anything because people have said that it doesn't show strengths and it shows that you really want to learn something new so you know don't be afraid we're here to help.

Euan (40:31)
So Thomas, what would you say is the most satisfying thing about your role in nurturing TEFL talent?

Thomas (40:39)
Definitely when you see people improving and developing and start to see people getting confident. That's a real biggie for me. You know, when you see people all nervous and worried and think they can't do it, and then you start to see them develop and get confident and then when they move on to the next level and start experimenting, mean that is just amazing, that's just brilliant. That's very exciting for me and it shows that I'm doing something right.

So that's when I get to pat myself on the back and say, yeah, great. I love also when people come to me asking for help. You know, when you get people saying, I can't do this. I think any teacher who wants to teach love helping people. That's what we're here for. And that's really great. And another great thing is when you teach someone TEFL and you see them developing and then they pass and they go away and they won't (give up)…

A couple of years later, they come back and they contact you and they send pictures of you, of what they're doing and how they've developed and how you've helped to mold and change their life and how you've helped to get open doors for them and give them opportunities and to escape from the life that they had before that they wanted to change or move forward or whatever, maybe not "escape". That is amazing and it really makes me realise how important and how amazing my job is and how much I love it.

Euan (42:07)
I cannot think of a better way to end the podcast than with that answer. So Thomas, thank you so, much for your time. I'm just wondering if there's anything else you want to tell people before we wrap up.

Thomas (42:19)
Can I just tell a little story about an 83-year-old lady from Liverpool?

Euan (42:22)
Absolutely you can, yes you can.

Thomas (42:23)
Just to end up, there was an 83 year old lady from Liverpool who I taught and she went to, her husband died and she wanted to do something different so at 83 she went to an orphanage in Nepal to teach. It didn't work out, it was a disaster. She came back, she did a TEFL course with us and she realised what she was doing wrong… and she went back to Nepal and it was a massive success. She realised what she was doing wrong and she loved it and she goes back and forward to Nepal. I kept in touch with her for a few years, and she kept going back and forth and was loving it, and we kind of lost contact. And there you go, an 83-year-old.

Euan (43:05)
That's amazing. That's absolutely, I mean, imagine, yeah, wow. That's just, it just shows you what you're able to do with a TEFL certificate. It just like, it's so, cool. Yeah, I wish we could; honestly, there'll be another podcast in the future where it's just you tell me about the different students you've had, and maybe we'll use some names, maybe not, all of that.

Thomas (43:23)
Yeah, I mean, I've got loads of stuff here to talk about, but there's just no time to talk about it all. So in another podcast.

Euan (43:31)
Definitely, definitely. You know I'll hassle you in the future about it. look forward to that email! Thomas, it's been as ever, it's been fantastic talking to you. Thank you so, much. I was going to, normally I ask I ask a guest where people can find you, but people can find you teaching through the TEFL Org, and they can find you on the other end of the support line. So.

Thomas (43:52)
Yeah, or my direct email, thomas@tefl.org as well.

Euan (43:56)
Yeah, brilliant. Well, from less sunny Glasgow to much sunnier Madrid, it's been a pleasure speaking to you. And yeah, I'll chat with you soon, Thomas. Thank you.

Thomas (44:06)
Thank you very much. care. Bye, everybody.